General Rant Concerning "schooled" Designers

[myront]

I do not hold a degree in Graphic Design. My training was from a military school back in 1995. We covered the basics and I mean "BASICS" (color theory, hand sketching, lettering technique, shading, ets.). We spent maybe two class periods on computers (Macs I believe) It wasn't until getting to my actual duty station that I was sat in front of a pc and was told to "learn it". So here I am 22yrs later retired from the military and working full time at the sign shop for 13 years now. I am self taught and I like to think I'm pretty darn good at it.

On to my rant. I was given a work request. Customer wants 500 of one decal white on clear & 300 of another, same white on clear. The only other stipulation is that the decals need to be 2"h x ?. Files provided are white transparent png's. Simple two line text. I set the proof up and send to the customer for approval. "No, sizes need to be...." and "WHY can't you use the files as given". Who is this clown!? I say to myself. Look at the name on the workorder and low and behold it's a client whom I had problems with before. This person holds a degree in Graphic Design and designed the decals themself and have been around a while, as in not fresh out of school! I took it upon myself to "vectorize" the decals for spot color use something we normally charge for. A png is not 1 color. Anyway I tried a trace but the results weren't to my liking. I managed to find the fonts used and proceeded with the layout. Still puzzled by the size request.

My next email to the person was rather lengthy as I tried to explain why a png should not have been the file type of choice.1st choice and most universal file format should be pdf. Why? Pantone are preserved, as well as, gradients or "fountain fills" as I would prefer them to be called. As long as one knows what they are doing when producing the pdf. 2nd choice would be eps (except fountain fills) and3rd choice would be the native file format saved to an earlier version. Add to this that the png's did not come in at the requested size, as is typical of png's or at least from someone who doesn't know how to properly make a specific size png.

Conclusion - Why aren't the "schooled" taught these things from the get go! Or why haven't they learned something other than what the schools teach.

 

[bannertime]

Oh boy...

There should be at least a 3 hour credit course about file types and how to save/export files.

I think this is why Signs365 ask for full size RGB jpegs.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I wish there was also coverage on physical production and the requirements of the more popular ones and how to design for them. It all seems to just be print and/or web these days. Some type of "shop class" that they can run things and actually see what works and what doesn't and hopefully why. Or at least make them aware that things may have to be changed depending on what application this is going for.

Regardless of what file I may get (I do the same thing for all of them, so file formats aren't quite the issue as long as they are good resolution and my programs can open them up accurately), but not everything translates "as is". Some are understanding, some are not. Next time I hear from them (the ones that aren't understanding), they have it done by someone else and it looks like crap, but they are happy because it's "as is", instead of what the finished quality may look like.

Over the course of how long I've been doing this, going on 23 yrs this June, it's gotten worse as far as "designers" not understanding or wanting to understand that their design for print won't translate well using thread.

 

[oksigns]

I see these very same posts on here every once and awhile.

Truth is, file prep for printing in a lot of schools are the very last thing learned if at all. So much emphasis is placed on the process and core competency in the programs to bring ideas to fruition that, at least in my experience, it was left to the students themselves to figure it out- and that is best case scenario as, in those environments, proactive students will catch on to what works and adhere to standards as they are exposed to the right production environment.

Otherwise, it literally is a cluster of students just trying to finish a project with very specific guidelines with little regard to file prep. There is just no exposure to best practices unless a student visits a printshop that knows what they are doing.

edit: I am speaking for the collegiate level of education here

 

[d fleming]

My experience as a high school teacher and now many years later as a judge for vocational contests and contributor to classroom study from time to time is this. When I sent a student of mine to you for consideration to be an intern, I made sure I knew what his duties would be and what skill level was required and I made sure the applicant had that at least on an entry level. My students could screen print flat stock and textiles, work on a pc in Signlab, corel and adobe products, weed, apply, etc vinyl graphics from plotter. They knew basic shop etiquette. I could specialize their training for your shop if needed.
All they do in high school now is teach them adobe on a mac to the point they can paste up a business card using stock elements to a c grade level. Their sole focus is to have them adobe certified at graduation. Lord knows what they get in college.

 

[Billct2]

"This isn't what it looks like on my screen"

 

[Billct2]

Ok, to add to "It doesn't look like it does on my screen", now they can actually display their design on a screen, a GIANT screen, digital billboards, and you still can't read them!

 

[printhog]

The "designers" at many ad agencies have similar issues with understanding the science of prepress to press. It's not a forgiving work we do. But they get the scroll and think they've become an expert. I've had better luck herding cats.

its only a freaking sign!

 

[3SixtySigns]

Amen brothers and sisters. Amen.

 

[visual800]

You cannot learn to design through education.
You cannot learn to draw though education

You either CAN design or you cant. These kids come out of these schools not knowing how to use any design software except word and powerpoint and they suck at that. They do not take direction and they also do not take criticism well at all. They know it all and they are superior to every one else. They have no idea about fille setup, changing texts to outlines and lets not forget the most annoying not knowing vector from jpeg

I hate dealing with them

 

[Johnny Best]

There's a lot of good design out there and from what I see on here it's a wonder where it is all coming from.
You can learn design and drawing through education but a lot has to do with self motivation.

 

[visual800]

There's a lot of good design out there and from what I see on here it's a wonder where it is all coming from.
You can learn design and drawing through education but a lot has to do with self motivation.

A good designer is something you CAN NOT LEARN. Designing comes from within not a classroom. Unless of course you would like to be a run of the mill designer

 

[Johnny Best]

Most design nowadays comes from people copying other designers, hence the same look and layouts, equals "run of the mill"
I agree with all the problems with these "designers" out there but it is something you have to deal with.
I always liked the classroom with nude models.

 

[Gino]

There are many people who have a natural talent for layout/design or just to plain draw. For some, it's not as difficult to duplicate or translate what they see to their hands with a pencil in it, but to say you can't learn to draw or design is completely ludicrous. So, you think, drawing is a God given talent that ya either have or don't ??

Any artistic person needs coaching, learning and most of all practice. How many here practice ?? Or anything other than charge the next person for practicing if ya land a job.

Anything in life needs schoolbook learning and training...... doctors, electricians, baseball players, mechanics, etc. Only those who want to further their education are gonna be the good ones. Otherwise, ya end up like the likes of most of the wannabees at this place.

When I was young, I had art talent, but it was honed in art classes at school, institutions, college, on the job and on my own. I still on occasion attend a class here or there to keep up with things, since the computer has taken over a lotta of what I used to do with eye/hand coordination.

Yep, it takes talent, but only 10% or 15% is natural, the rest is mostly learned and cultivated to you and your style.

 

[Johnny Best]

You can learn to design if you have the right teacher. It is from within but that teaching has to start as a young person on how to draw or design. Just as Mozart was train by his father to be who he became.

 

[dale911]

I had a "designer" send me PowerPoint files a couple weeks ago. I was the one who had to open them in PowerPoint and export them as PDF and then fix the background that didn't read properly because they didn't have a clue. I am completely self taught and know a million more things than these "educated" designers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[printhog]

As a trade we have some issues that are part of this. We don't take on apprentices any more. We guard our shop techniques from prying eyes. We don't interact with our competitors over issues like design, codes, pricing and future workforce.
I understand this. Secrets are advantages. And with the entry cost to this trade now a monthly payment equal to a cell phone bill with a data plan I get it. Every "maker" is buying a plotter and printer and thinking they're a sign shop. Every print shop is doing the same. Even tire and wheel shops near me are doing wraps. Thanks Fellers.
The direction our trade is going is downhill. Commodity. Brought about by people that think the only way to get the work is to be the low price. Sad.
But how to change a trade that is so tight about it's ways is a challenge.
After 40 years in this I'm almost ready to take down my shingle and let the hobbyists have their way.
Those student designers are the future... And they need smart machines to offset the lack of technical skills.

its only a freaking sign!

 

[Johnny Best]

Printhog is right, they(student designers) will just have to learn how to send their files to outsourcers and the sign industry as we know it will be gone.
Customers will just find the sign shops on AmazonPrime and have it deliveried free next day. It's almost like that now! Just service sign shops to replace led's, lamps, new faces and digging holes for installation.

 

[Pauly]

You cannot learn to design through education.
You cannot learn to draw though education

You either CAN design or you cant. These kids come out of these schools not knowing how to use any design software except word and powerpoint and they suck at that. They do not take direction and they also do not take criticism well at all. They know it all and they are superior to every one else. They have no idea about fille setup, changing texts to outlines and lets not forget the most annoying not knowing vector from jpeg

I hate dealing with them

A good designer is something you CAN NOT LEARN. Designing comes from within not a classroom. Unless of course you would like to be a run of the mill designer

I Strongly disagree.

One may not know how to draw cartoon characters. You can teach someone the basics how to draw cartoon characters.
That someone can learn from that, and draw cartoon characters to their liking.

Some people have good imagination. But not everyone knows how to put that to paper. You can teach someone how to put it to paper.

I speak from experience.

You can learn to do anything. You learnt to speak didn't you? someone had to teach you, you weren't born with that talent.

 

[visual800]

I Strongly disagree.

One may not know how to draw cartoon characters. You can teach someone the basics how to draw cartoon characters.
That someone can learn from that, and draw cartoon characters to their liking.

Some people have good imagination. But not everyone knows how to put that to paper. You can teach someone how to put it to paper.

I speak from experience.

You can learn to do anything. You learnt to speak didn't you? someone had to teach you, you weren't born with that talent.

Notice I said GOOD DESIGNER....not Signs101 designers. You can send me to school for caricatures but it will do you no good because I cant draw them. I cant and never will be able to. Ive tried.
My mother took oil painting lessons, she has art hanging in her house that should have never been hung, it sucks because she cant draw.

Whatever talent or hidden secret a human has is already embedded inside of them, drawing, cooking, sports....whatever it is. Now the "others" that are taught these skills will never match up to thiose that already had it inside