Need Help Getting good grey color out of my printer. Roland xc -540

[Jharris81]

So I have a job that I need to print that is a black and grey camo print. Well it keeps coming out greenish or brownish. I have looked and looked and lots of tips but non seem to be a resolution to my issue.

So here is Roland spot color from their color chart. The black is nice and the grey and the right is good but everything in between is brownish.

Even when I print the chart directly from versaworks they are a brownish so I’m guessing it’s not the files I’m using.

All of the ink is Roland eco max and all the print heads are Roland that have been serviced by a Roland tech. I have tried it on multiple different medias and same issue.


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[highrolling24]

First thing I always hear is Nozzle Check please otherwise it didnt happen! Also what color combination are you using CMYK? CMYKlclmlkO?

 

[Jharris81]

I do not have a nozzle check that I can upload at this time unfortunately. The nozzles are good and clean but I can upload one as soon as I’m back at the shop to get one.

I am using CMYKLCLM


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[netsol]

whose profiles are you using? downloaded profiles compensate for the peculiarities of the media, and that type of machine in general

use a Xrite i1 and make your own profiles and you will compensate for your own machine's condition

if you think about it, it is not possible for a downloaded profile to measure the performance of your machine, ink type, head condition

 

[Jharris81]

I am just using the standard profiles. I am very new to large formate printing I’m still learning every job I do.


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[Aaron Hunter]

Does your rip have a preserve k function?

 

[garyroy]

On your Pantone chart you should have a selection for Cool Gray's and Warm Grays.
They are numbered Cool Gray 1-11 and Warm Gray 1-11.
They are right after the 400 numbers in the Pantone chart. Print them out and see if they fit your needs.

 

[netsol]

I am just using the standard profiles. I am very new to large formate printing I’m still learning every job I do.


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i understand. i have decades doing electronic repairs, and as a computer/network consultant, but when it comes to getting my hands dirty with production work, i am a relative novice

 

[Jharris81]

On your Pantone chart you should have a selection for Cool Gray's and Warm Grays.
They are numbered Cool Gray 1-11 and Warm Gray 1-11.
They are right after the 400 numbers in the Pantone chart. Print them out and see if they fit your needs.

I did see something on a google search about the warm and cool grays and adjusting the amount of cyan or magenta through versaworks. I messed around with that for a little bit but didn’t reaLly help much and ended up more green hues. I will look at the Pantone chart and print some of those out and see what those look like.


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[Jharris81]

Does your rip have a preserve k function?

What would be the function of “preserve k”? Versaworks doesn’t have anything that says “preserve k” but maybe it is worded some other way in versaworks.


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[bob]

While it's possible to print grays satisfactorily, it's hard to do without all manner of nudging and tweaking various otherwise trivial settings. The problem is that you're trying to print gray with CMYK not just K. While the true believing colorista will spend every waking hour attempting to print a ten or perhaps twenty step gray gradient, maniacly adjusting this, that, and the other thing, the pragmatist will simply print a Pantone chart on the media and with the desired profile. From that chart select from that many grays available those that are most pleasing. While the colorist labors on.

 

[Jharris81]

While it's possible to print grays satisfactorily, it's hard to do without all manner of nudging and tweaking various otherwise trivial settings. The problem is that you're trying to print gray with CMYK not just K. While the true believing colorista will spend every waking hour attempting to print a ten or perhaps twenty step gray gradient, maniacly adjusting this, that, and the other thing, the pragmatist will simply print a Pantone chart on the media and with the desired profile. From that chart select from that many grays available those that are most pleasing. While the colorist labors on.

So as i was saying I am very new to “printing”, I have always delt with just digital color in the monitor. Now taking that color and printing it out is a different world all together, especially when it is for a client and they have a certain expectation. My thought would be I would do different shades of black and the printer would just be using the black ink to make the shades of gray. Well how so wrong I was! What I thought would be a relatively easy print to do has turn out to be a real issue and am debating finding someone to print it for me.


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[Jharris81]

So here is what bothers me. It’s not that I’m having a hard time making grey from a file that I created, it that the Roland Color Chart that is made by the company is printing out with brownish grays. Seems like that would be an issue that needs to be adjusted with the printer.


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[Souldar]

Remember to make sure that you are using the Roland palate before you output the job. If you are using a cmyk or other palate that isn't a spot color, VersaWorks is going to guess what color it thinks it is and in my experience it never guesses right twice.

 

[Jharris81]

Remember to make sure that you are using the Roland palate before you output the job. If you are using a cmyk or other palate that isn't a spot color, VersaWorks is going to guess what color it thinks it is and in my experience it never guesses right twice.

So in the pictures I posted, the Roland color chart is from almost a year ago. When I print my camo print wrap file that I have selected the grays from the Roland color chart they do match perfectly, just the gray color is brownish. So would that mean that the printer would need to be calibrated ?


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[Souldar]

So in the pictures I posted, the Roland color chart is from almost a year ago. When I print my camo print wrap file that I have selected the grays from the Roland color chart they do match perfectly, just the gray color is brownish. So would that mean that the printer would need to be calibrated ?


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The only thing I can think of at the moment is to reprint the color chart. Especially if you have had to change out a head or had any other similar repairs done. My chart changed a bit after I had a head change out. Also make sure you are exporting it as a spot color.

 

[garyroy]

A few things, make sure the color chart is on the same exact material that you are printing on now. That's important to compare results.

Also, in VW, under the Quality selection, go to Color Management, then notice there are 8 different selections.
Max Impact is one of them, SignUSA is another.
Those 8 selections all have 4 variables. Don't give up. Trial and error and a few yards of material.
You have to learn this if you are going to be in the print business. It's not all just design on screen and then press print.
There is some "art" and some" science" mixed into printing. Keep learning through trail and error.

Don't forget, there are print shops with 5 or 6 different types/brands of wide format printers and inks.
Think of what they go through to try to get consistently good results. Be persistent.
I know when the manufacturers and distributors sell the printers, they only sell the profit per sq ft. They never mention the learning curve.
They leave that up to us. LOL

 

[ToneCustomSigns]

What would be the function of “preserve k”? Versaworks doesn’t have anything that says “preserve k” but maybe it is worded some other way in versaworks.


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Maybe it says Pure hue? We use that on flexi when we print grey

 

[Jharris81]

A few things, make sure the color chart is on the same exact material that you are printing on now. That's important to compare results.

Also, in VW, under the Quality selection, go to Color Management, then notice there are 8 different selections.
Max Impact is one of them, SignUSA is another.
Those 8 selections all have 4 variables. Don't give up. Trial and error and a few yards of material.
You have to learn this if you are going to be in the print business. It's not all just design on screen and then press print.
There is some "art" and some" science" mixed into printing. Keep learning through trail and error.

Don't forget, there are print shops with 5 or 6 different types/brands of wide format printers and inks.
Think of what they go through to try to get consistently good results. Be persistent.
I know when the manufacturers and distributors sell the printers, they only sell the profit per sq ft. They never mention the learning curve.
They leave that up to us. LOL

Thank you for the motivation. Always helps to hear some kind words and have people to help like there are on this forum. I see so many people just get torn down for being “newbies” or asking questions. Then get told to use the search function.

I’m defiantly not giving up. I need to understand this thing one way or another.


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[Aaron Hunter]

So here is what bothers me. It’s not that I’m having a hard time making grey from a file that I created, it that the Roland Color Chart that is made by the company is printing out with brownish grays. Seems like that would be an issue that needs to be adjusted with the printer.


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Preserve K is a Caldera function but I remember there was an option from my days on a Roland.It removes the extra color noise when ripping colors.
I would adjust this using the rip. A quick search I found this:
From Versaworks...
"There is a “Use Primary Colors” check box – this will override a color targets tendency to add bits of color where they are not needed – Speckles in a pure yellow or red or green cast to pure grays. If this check mark is on – then a CMYK setting of 0,0,100,0 will make sure only the yellow channel is fired – no speckles. A dsignation of CMYK=0,0,0,50 – will make a black only 50% gray. Both these preserve that only one of the 4 primary colors are used as designated."
EDIT* Here's a link to the whole writeup if you'd like. https://premiumsignsupplies.com/versaworks-color-management/