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Giclee printing... Where to begin

jumeda33

New Member
Thanks for your responses. I didn't realize that the older Rolands only had six colors. The one I have seen is the HiFi Jet Fj600. It has eight colors so that is where the O and G come in I guess. What would be a good aerosol product to spray on the canvas after it is printed to give it a nice glossy vibrant look? I have seen products that actually go in a spray gun but we don't have the facilities for that. We just need to be able to pick up a can and spray.
Thanks again
 

sfr table hockey

New Member
I use a "Glamour II" product that is a gloss waterbased varnish. You can mix with water (about2-3 parts water 1 part varnish). Roll on before its stretched, with a foam roller. More water gives a bit more of a matt look. I like the semi gloss look. You can actually use it on solvent printed canvas as well if you wanted to. I do waterbased pigmented only for the art side.

And thats a nice web site.
 

Colin

New Member
I'm getting my feet wet with the Glicee thing right now too (not to mention digi-printing in general). Yesterday I received my new roll of Neschen Monet Semi Gloss canvas, and this morning I did some sample prints of some 2500x3500 px JPGs printed at about 7" x 10" with a 1/2" black border, and they turned out great!

I opened the JPG in Photoshop, gave it a "Canvas Size" 1/2" bigger all the way around (black), saved it as a TIF, and brought it into VersaWorks. Was that the right (best) way of doing it, or should I just leave it as a JPG? I printed it at High Quality, and "Sign & Display" setting.

I've sent out an email to a pile of people, and there may be some very real interest coming up.

Is there anyone who can suggest what I should be charging per square for these in Canada? (just the print - no framing).


Thanks
 
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TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Is there anyone who can suggest what I should be charging per square for these in Canada? (just the print - no framing).

just figure out the price same you would anything else. you have your ink yield, your printing material, your overhead, your labor, margin, % for profit markup and the such.
 

Colin

New Member
Just figure out the price same you would anything else. You have your ink yield, your printing material, your overhead, your labor, margin, % for profit markup and the such.

Thanks. It seems though that this might be part of a specialized or "artsy" area where one might be able to charge more than general signage. (?)
 

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signswi

New Member
Thanks. It seems though that this might be part of a specialized or "artsy" area where one might be able to charge more than general signage. (?)

It is but you're not really doing what it takes to get into that market. That market is largely reserved for giclee specific shops that shoot or scan the work, color manage it, do multiple press checks with the artist until it's perfect, coat it, guarantee the work, understand how to work with galleries, etc. Requires a deep knowledge of color management with a side knowledge of art image capture best practices and understanding of the art market on top of the large format imaging stuff. That market doesn't blink at multiple thousands of dollars on an order because they're selling individual prints for thousands or tens of thousands, but it's extremely particular.

For 'artist' prints (aka some lady paints a watercolor of a lake or her cat) you could do what you're doing and put a small markup on it for the time it takes to color manage provided files.
 

Colin

New Member
That is bang-on jesse. After speaking with a professional artist friend last night, that is what I've come to understand. And add to that the fact that they're not using a slightly inferior solvent printer for the output.

My friend showed me some invoices for large canvas prints he had done in the past at one of those high-end places you've described, and while the charges for all work done to the file (etc) were separate, they were still charging $22.00 per sq. ft. for just the print, unframed. This is what makes me think that there might be some room for getting above the basement prices that the sign industry has been ground down to.

Any further thoughts?
 

sfr table hockey

New Member
I don't want to burst your bubble but I match the price in the City where a high end art printer, prints the waterbased pigmented inks, at $12 a sq ft and that also includes varnish over the print. Last year they were at $17.50. On top of that to put it on bar and stretch, they charge $3 a running foot. So a 24" x 24" has a total of 8 running feet of bar x $3= $24 so bar and stretching for $24.

You can't be slow making the frame, and you can't be slow stretching the canvas.

So some may charge $20 plus a sq/ft , as long as you match price you would be doing great at that. Be ready to find lower. Who know you may still get a fair amount at the higher price but before buying a new printer to do it check around.
 

Colin

New Member
Yes, I think that given my limited knowledge of the giant world of colour management, and the fact that my printer is a solvent (although what I've printed so far looks pretty dang nice), I should perhaps focus on everything & anything other than the high-end market.

Given that a per sq ft pricing can't be done profitably on those one-off 8"x10" print jobs, something tells me that perhaps a three-tiered pricing structure might be a good idea.

Like:
1 - 10 sq ft = $25.00/sq
10 - 30 sq ft = $15.00/sq
30 sq ft and up = $10.00/sq


Thoughts on that?
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Yes, I think that given my limited knowledge of the giant world of colour management, and the fact that my printer is a solvent (although what I've printed so far looks pretty dang nice), I should perhaps focus on everything & anything other than the high-end market.

Given that a per sq ft pricing can't be done profitably on those one-off 8"x10" print jobs, something tells me that perhaps a three-tiered pricing structure might be a good idea.

Like:
1 - 10 sq ft = $25.00/sq
10 - 30 sq ft = $15.00/sq
30 sq ft and up = $10.00/sq

Good intentions but a bad structure.

By your schedule a 10 ft^2 would be $250 but an 11 ft^2 would be $165, a 30 ft^2 would be $450 but 31 ft^2 would be $310. It doesn't make a lot of sense that more should be less. The price for X+1 should never be less that the price for X.

To do this right you need to price on a curve. A simple curve might be similar to the one I use...

(max-min)+(ft^2 x min)+(2 x media_unrolled)

Where...

max is the maximum price per ft^2. What you would charge for, say, 1 ft^2 or less.

min is the absolute minimum per ft^2 for which you'll print regardless of size.

ft^2 is the actual size of the print rounded up to the nearest integer.

media_unrolled is your cost per linear foot of media unrolled for this print, including all waste. I multiply this by 2 for a 100% markup. Your mileage may vary.

For example, I use $25 for a maximum and $6 for a minimum and my cost for media is ~$4 per linear foot so an 18"x24" print would be...

(25-6)+(6 x 3)+(2 x 12) [12=$4 times 3 feet of media unrolled]
or 19+18+24
or $61.00

These are my rates, set your to whatever gets you off.

This algorithm yields an exponential curve that goes from your maximum ft^2 price to your minimum ft^2 price. Actually it becomes asymptotic about the minimum. In other words, it gets close but never actually gets there.

The nice thing about it is the the larger the print, the less per ft^2 it is but X+1 is never less than X.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
If your art friend was getting $22 a sq foot that is pretty good. Back in college I was paying about $40 a sq foot not including the spot color fees, and professional photography and color correcting I paid a few times for. (when it's REALLY large for the original ... it's worth it.)


I know my pricing for printing with aqueous ink comes out around $18-32 a sq foot depending on the ink yield on canvas and other issues I need to work with (poor image quality for one). Largely the $20-50 range is about spot on for art reproductions, and mostly because places that specialize in this sort of printing make their money on making the art look exactly like the original as it comes out the printer without any reflections, inconsistent colors or any beading that might form on the print.
 

artbot

New Member
as far a market... the average retail for high end anything in the artworld is about $500 psf.

a rep or gallery will get half of that, the artist will be splitting his or her half with the rep.

$500 retail psf
$250 wholesale psf
$125 artist's cost psf (rep gets the other $125)
$10-$20 material cost.

where the out of house giclee printer sits is working directly with the artist so i'd figure the printer will be wanting about 25% of the artist cost or $25 psf for reproductions.
 

Jgentry

New Member
My experience has been $9-14 sq/ft. Of course you may charge a print set up fee, capture fee and some charge for proofs. We try to nail the colors so that artists trust us to the point that they don't need a proof after the first few times.
http://www.potomacmedia.com/artistprintpricelist.htm

I'm here because I'm moving to the GS6000 for my fine art prints and we are diving into the murals and interior design thing, such as I notice you have been working with artbot.

Incidentally I'm ebaying the 60" Canon for those who want to get serious about art and photography prints:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-ImageProg...OMP_Printers&hash=item35b0e00219#ht_500wt_922

I'm really hoping the Epson will deliver as well as the Canon printer has...

-Jonathan

as far a market... the average retail for high end anything in the artworld is about $500 psf.

a rep or gallery will get half of that, the artist will be splitting his or her half with the rep.

$500 retail psf
$250 wholesale psf
$125 artist's cost psf (rep gets the other $125)
$10-$20 material cost.

where the out of house giclee printer sits is working directly with the artist so i'd figure the printer will be wanting about 25% of the artist cost or $25 psf for reproductions.
 

signswi

New Member
im in the WRONG biz.

She's selling her intellectual property--this is why we constantly harp in the forum about remembering to value your IP and not just the end products!

Congrats and good luck, I have a four month old who just started teething--exhausting but amazing journey. Every day is different and the smiles will obliterate you completely.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
She's selling her intellectual property--this is why we constantly harp in the forum about remembering to value your IP and not just the end products!...

You seem to be using the notion of 'intellectual property' as a rationalization for ridiculous prices. Perhaps this is what comes of maintaining some sort of spiritual connection to whatever product you produce. The notion that one's work is somehow 'special' and therefore must be incredibly valuable.

Don not confuse the concept of 'unique' with 'special'. The former is inarguable, the latter is a rationalization. Every artifact in the external reality is unique, damn few of them are special.

Here in this shop the is no spiritual connection to anything produced. It's just a job. It doesn't make a whit of difference to me if it's a picture of an enraged bandicoot or a likeness of someone's spawn whose parents no doubt think that the kid is the cutest, brightest, and most talented child on the planet. As an aside, it's this always mistaken opinion that prevent the parent from drowning their offspring at birth.

Regardless, it's the same price for either one, wunderkind or warthog, it matters not to me.
 

signswi

New Member
:help

How'd I know you'd show up--you can keep spouting your weird "it's just a product" mentality but the rest of the world will continue to function in reality where time spent and expertise have value. It's your choice to ignore the legal protections you have as a designer/photographer/creator and sell at the lowest possible value, everyone else on planet reality will continue to price their work to market value for their goods AND services. Continue to drag your own worth down, you're only hurting yourself.

Her prices are only ridiculous if the market won't pay them. If it will, they're right on. She's dedicated her career to learning her craft, she has the right to profit off of that time spent and her IP products. That's rather the point of business. If she sold prints at print cost she wouldn't be charging anything for the IP, which is what she was hired to create. She's not you--you're just printing stuff, she's creating it. That is value added, she has the right to price that value. She's charging for print cost + cost of IP. Colin could have negotiated for the rights of the photos and purchased those rights, then he could print them himself or purchase at cost as he'd own the IP.

Really not sure how you still don't get business basics. These aren't "spiritual connections", they're internationally enforced laws. Specifically you should read section 106 of the copyright Act of 1976.
 
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