Gino is missing...

[signage]

We have lost many very knowledgeable sign members. Some people on here like to keep pushing peoples buttons until they get banned, we all suffer from such actions! This is just a forum ignore what you don't like!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Words cannot push you around, they're just words.The only way words can harm you would be if someone drops a dictionary on your foot. Grow up.

Not so. Words have power behind them. Those that know and understand when and how to say things can actually yoke that ability. Those that just say anything and everything that they please without any filters miss out (oddly enough, being able to apply filters to one's speech/actions is apart of growing up as well). Most things can be said with equal or more strength then mentioning the irrelevant stuff or even things along the lines of what you would call "meta posts".

"Attack" what is being said, not the person saying it. It's far easier to "attack" the person speaking/typing versus the substance of what they are saying.

 

[TimToad]

Toad, let's call a spade a spade. You went after Gino on this last round as you have many other times. You were not even participating in the thread, you did not come in and offer advice, you went in antagonized Gino then went on to talk about yourself. You said you had him on ignore but you obviously did not. You are showing your a** here, just as TX called you out for doing, trying to gaslight everyone into believing you are the savior and Gino is the devil. Now you are going after TX and I am sure that I am next for speaking out just like everyone else that does not agree with you.

This is the first post in that thread that I added. I challenge you to pick out where I "antagonized" anyone.

"I'm on many other forums from one's about my favorite musical groups to sports teams, to politics, art and multiple SIGN related forums and don't see the same people attacking, insulting, condescending to, patronizing, targeting, ETC fellow members and peers.

Those types get weeded out quickly. People don't have the time, patience or inclination to want to invest in what is meant to be collaborative, mutually respectful, enjoyable, informational, camaraderie building forums and have to skim past, police or respond to the flood of negativity and attacks from the handful of cranks with too much free time on their hands.

Some of the names mentioned as having left or not participating here are industry giants and their absence is noticeable.

An important exercise is to learn the difference between "debate" and "argue". It's one thing to disagree or have a difference of opinion, but to learn how to respectfully debate those differences without arguing about them is important."

Here is my second post and again, it was in response to YOUR post and never mentioned, eluded to Gino or anyone else for that matter. This despite him using SEVERAL posts to attack and infer plenty about Derby, myself and anyone else who dares ask what he considers an inane question here.

"Maybe those folks lurking in the woodwork feel intimidated to come out and offer anything out of fear of being judged, personally attacked, condescended to, disrespected, etc.?"

Here is HIS immediate response to my post to you. If we're going to be pulling out the "call a spade a spade" crap, I'm sure those without a built reflex bias and preferences about other members can judge who is really the antagonist in this ridiculous mess. You lost all pretense of being above the fray with your antagonistic posting of the bus driver eating the burrito and other jabs.

"Or maybe they're afraid you'll just rush in and try to outdo them with one of your sign picture shows........... or someone slop food down their trousers.... and then contemplate eating it or not. That's the person I wanna follow suit on..... It's one thing for people to fight their own battles, but when this place has you and the derby calling 911 all the time, who needs hall monitors anymore ??

Gosh, can't you guys just listen to yourselves once in a while ??"

Until he took it personal, i never mentioned him, was speaking about or to him.

 

[equippaint]

"Attack" what is being said, not the person saying it. It's far easier to "attack" the person speaking/typing versus the substance of what they are saying.

As always, nice post. I would add that people need to detach themselves from what they are saying so they do not perceive every contrary opinion as an attack and respond in kind.

 

[TimToad]

As always, nice post. I would add that people need to detach themselves from what they are saying so they do not perceive every contrary opinion as an attack and respond in kind.

Yes, it's a nice idea except one thing is wrong with the sentiment. When something IS an attack, folks tend to prickle up and get tired of slapping their foreheads and turning the other cheek day after day as the same person careens through life "telling it like it is" to anyone near them.

 

[equippaint]

Yes, it's a nice idea except one thing is wrong with the sentiment. When something IS an attack, folks tend to prickle up and get tired of slapping their foreheads and turning the other cheek day after day as the same person careens through life "telling it like it is" to anyone near them.

It cuts both ways.

 

[Johnny Best]

I like Gino, and I am really surprised that I have not been mentioned in certain people's rants today about people who make you slap yourself or make this place awful for them. I have been called a lot of nasty things on here by certain people and have been accused of calling myself a victim, was accused of being a racist, don't ask me where that came from, but, as bob said that words can't hurt so I am not bruised in any way.
Gino reminds me of the old signpainters I knew as a kid, you would ask them if they were doing this their whole life and they would look at you and say "not yet"! My grandfather was one of those old guys, went to war, came home and learned a trade.
Cantankerous would be a could word to describe them. Gino has that quality. I have never met him but I get a smile on my face when he responds in that old forgotten way. F##k, this sounds like Gino's eulogy, sorry.
Anyway I come here for the interest in signs, I add my comments when something strikes me as funny through a drawing or to help if someone needs it. And hopefully a future post will not say "Johnny is missing"...

 

[equippaint]

F##k, this sounds like Gino's eulogy, sorry.

Lol, I was thinking the same thing reading the other thread. Cantankerous is a stretch but you're right. Generally speaking, you can learn much more from guys like this than the hand holders. If they see you are willing to work and listen aka don't argue with every bit of direction they give, they will go to the end of the earth to help you succeed, even if you don't know a thing. Once you get on their bad side though, it's all over.
You say respond in the old forgotten way, it's alive and well. It's just not in here as the trade has turned from hands on and laborious to sitting in front of a pc and running printers. Half the people here would get PTSD working as a hand with a crane company or with a concrete crew. It's a bit pathetic really.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Generally speaking, you can learn much more from guys like this than the hand holders.

Y'all do realize that there is a middle of the road between the 2? In other words, this is a false dilemma. To think that one has to act this way or they are "hand holders" if they don't. I think this is part of the problem.

Now, one may not be capable of telling it like it is without adding in the mud slinging, that's a whole other can of worms. And just because someone slipped first with the mud slinging, doesn't mean that it's OK to join in.

There is a way to be honest and telling like it is without adding in the extra shit, that some people just think has to be there, or they do it because they can and they want to (boy that really sounds mature). Just because something was done way back when, doesn't in of itself make it right (doesn't mean that it was wrong, but just based on that mere fact of it being done way back when, doesn't necessarily make it right).

Half the people here would get PTSD working as a hand with a crane company or with a concrete crew. It's a bit pathetic really.

I've worked with rough necks (more aggie roughnecks and oil rig haulers back in my teen yrs). The ones that I dealt with never matured and boy were they close minded.

 

[TimToad]

Lol, I was thinking the same thing reading the other thread. Cantankerous is a stretch but you're right. Generally speaking, you can learn much more from guys like this than the hand holders. If they see you are willing to work and listen aka don't argue with every bit of direction they give, they will go to the end of the earth to help you succeed, even if you don't know a thing. Once you get on their bad side though, it's all over.
You say respond in the old forgotten way, it's alive and well. It's just not in here as the trade has turned from hands on and laborious to sitting in front of a pc and running printers. Half the people here would get PTSD working as a hand with a crane company or with a concrete crew. It's a bit pathetic really.

Y'all do realize that there is a middle of the road between the 2? In other words, this is a false dilemma. To think that one has to act this way or they are "hand holders" if they don't. I think this is part of the problem.

Now, one may not be capable of telling it like it is without adding in the mud slinging, that's a whole other can of worms. And just because someone slipped first with the mud slinging, doesn't mean that it's OK to join in.

There is a way to be honest and telling like it is without adding in the extra ****, that some people just think has to be there, or they do it because they can and they want to (boy that really sounds mature). Just because something was done way back when, doesn't in of itself make it right (doesn't mean that it was wrong, but just based on that mere fact of it being done way back when, doesn't necessarily make it right).



I've worked with rough necks (more aggie roughnecks and oil rig haulers back in my teen yrs). The ones that I dealt with never matured and boy were they close minded.

It's a huge part of the problem both here and out in the culture at large. Toxic masculinity, black and white thinking, lack of nuance, whatever you want to call it.

I worked under the baddest ass, most fearless, cantankerous, grouchy, straight shooting, tell it like it is, set in stone, world class curmuddgeons in the craft. These dudes didn't even use safety harnesses until OSHA was empowered and they worked hundreds of feet off the ground without guardrail on rope swing stages.

We worked in horrific conditions year round, risked life and limb and they could care less about anyone's "feelings".

Did I learn valuable lessons and skills from them? Of course.

Did they candy coat anything? NEVER

Was it ever enjoyable to work with them? Rarely

Were they mean and completely unaware and uncaring about their effect on those under and around them? Unfortunately, yes.

Were there exceptions to the rule? YES.

One of my primary mentors, Tom Cavanaugh was one of the finest sign craftspeople in the trade in Chicago and the kindest, most generous of heart journeyman, you could ever hope to be assigned to. So were Ray Shiestel, Ken Millar and Bob Behounek.

This weekend was the Chicago Brushmasters charity event and hundreds of craftspeople donated pieces to be auctioned off for Ronald McDonald house. Bob and Ray have been the organizers with other "hand holders" for years. They have donated almost a million dollars to the charity since they started.

I belong to several other sign related forums where these giants of our craft participate regularly and they never pull the kind of disrespectful, bullying, vindictive, mocking, toxic male crap that I see here masquerading as "telling it like it is" and most of them have over 50 years in the trade.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

Geezus Toad... would ya give it a rest already!
If you don't like what you see or hear, turn away, walk away, run away, ignore it, whatever it takes. Most of all... Don't let what you don't like put a knot in your panties causing you to stumble during your escape.

 

[TimToad]

Geezus Toad... would ya give it a rest already!
If you don't like what you see or hear, turn away, walk away, run away, ignore it, whatever it takes. Most of all... Don't let what you don't like put a knot in your panties causing you to stumble during your escape.

Maybe you should follow your own advice.

You're just as much of the situation as anyone else. One freaking morning out of ten years without your buddy and you and Texas had to make a huge drama queen affair out of it, yet you've got the gall to tell others to chill out and watch our panties.

WildWestDesigns offered a couple compelling responses and I was hoping to have an adult conversation about it with him.

Thanks for your further antagonism.