Giving away the farm/Sign shop..... Very Scary

[calbanner]

Gotta get this off my chest.....

Anybody else running up against this type of low ball pricing.

Obviously the person making the signs for these prices, can't be the
same person who pays the bills.

I just quoted for a 3x5 ft. MDO SIGN. Qty. 1 for $350 or 2 for $350.
I price my banners at $5 per square foot, after design....

Have a look at this attachement from Signarama.

This isn't even competition.

Customer:
I was hoping you were more competitive than the last sign company I ordered from. They are almost 1/2 of what you are charging. How is that possible? I have attached the invoice for the 2 signs I ordered from them which were 3 x 5 signs for $118 each.
Let me know if you can do any better on the pricing with possibly a different material, otherwise I will just go back to Signarama.


My Response to potential customer:

Hi Laurie......
Wow those are give away prices.
Cost on a sheet of MDO 4x8 is $70.....
It has not been cut down.
The design has not been done.
The graphics have not been done.
3x5 ft. = 15 sq. ft. so the other 17 sq.ft is wasted.
The edges need to be primered and painted.

You should order from them all you can, while they are still in business.

I would not even try to compete with those numbers.

Those prices are way to low.....

I'll stick with using quality materials, Nice effective layout & design
done at fair pricing. Has served me well for 26 years.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to match price, but I will decline.

All the Best, Peter

California Banner & Sign Co.
1670 Pacific Coast Hwy.
Harbor City, CA 90710
Ph: 310-539-6369
Fax: 310-539-0417
Web: www.CaliforniaBannerAndSign.com
e-mail: calbanner@aol.com

 

[Gino]

You did-done-good.

Those other prices are stoopidly low.

On another note, I would not put down or insinuate the other shop is doing something wrong. That is none of your business when it comes to business ethics. You can tell them what you would or wouldn't do/use, but not the part about buying from them while they're in business or how they conduct their business and their prices are too low. That's too bad for the consumer, huh ??

Take the high road and just explain what you do and how you operate and thanks for the opportunity...... period.

 

[ChicagoGraphics]

What is the MDO made of that its 70 bucks a sheet?

I get it for 45 a sheet finish coated one side, $350.00 for a 3'x'5' over priced!

 

[Gino]

Ours is about $68 a sheet, also. While $350 might sound high to you, it sounds about normal to me. The part I don't understand is 1 for $350 or 2 for $350

Anyway, you could do this for the $118 the other guy quoted ??

 

[OldPaint]

$45 a sheet??????? in what quantity??? GRIMCO, or our local lumber yard carries MDO. $70 is about right.... 3 X 5 1/2 MDO......15 SQ FT x $10 SQUARE FT INCLUDES MATERIAL, DESIGN AND LETTERING $150.......now if there are GRAPHICS.... add accordingly.......iam in the process of doing a 2' X 3" a-frame for $200, its only lettered one face....similar to this.
those prices at a FRANCHISE SHOP......i would bet the employee.........is pocketing the money using all materials from the franchise)))))

 

[FatCat]

What is the MDO made of that its 70 bucks a sheet?

I get it for 45 a sheet finish coated one side, $350.00 for a 3'x'5' over priced!

Not to be a smarta**, but I just received an email this morning with Grimco's "Friday Specials".
Online price for finish painted 1-side MDO (1/2") is $60.95/sheet - ON SALE!!!
(Regular price is $73.95/sheet)

I agree $350 is a little higher than I would be for a 3' x 5' sign - but certainly in the ballpark.
FWIW - The quote from the other place is absurd and more alike to what I would charge for 4mm coro.

 

[trakers]

I won’t discuss sign pricing in this open forum, but I can say we would be higher than your prices on both items. On the MDO, we pay about what you pay for 2 sided, painted (and that’s when its on “sale”). Glad others can get it much lower, but the sole supplier around here has us by the b***.

We have lowball shops around here too. $750 for a full printed wrap for example.

What I have found of the newest 4 shops that opened the last couple years is that they had lost their jobs, haven’t been able to find work and now they are the newest “sign shop” to open up. They have no idea how to run a business and are still new enough to think making stickers is fun.

In reading your reply, I know you probably needed to vent, but I would have just told the customer they should have the other place do it. They will be back to you when the other place closes. Like Gino said, take the high road. It’s hard sometimes, but it's the right thing to do.

Even in our small market we see many different kind of business ran the same way. Prices way, way, way too low. No possibility of long term viability.

What pisses me off is if these idiots researched and actually figured their overhead and priced things competitively, we could all make a good living. The way it is, all they do is work for $4 and hour and make quality shops look like crooks!

Sorry, I'm usually pretty quiet here, but this topic gets me fired UP!! ;-)

 

[darby07]

Since everyone is throwing out their cost for MDO, hell I will too. I buy mine for about $50 a sheet (primed 2 sides)

I've seen a lot of guys cut corners when it comes to priming and sealing edges for external use MDO signage. You're really just going to have to insist that your sign is a Cadillac and theirs is a Volkswagen!

 

[Gino]

Since everyone is throwing out their cost for MDO, hell I will too. I buy mine for about $50 a sheet (primed 2 sides)

I've seen a lot of guys cut corners when it comes to priming and sealing edges for external use MDO signage. You're really just going to have to insist that your sign is a Cadillac and theirs is a Volkswagen!

We're all quoting RTG duraply/MDO. Primed is a different story, That's about $50 a sheet for 1/2".

For a Cadillac vs. VW, I would think you'd compare 1/2" MDO to 8/4's western redwood all clear/heart, vertical grain sandblasted signs.....

 

[darby07]

we're all quoting rtg duraply/mdo. Primed is a different story, that's about $50 a sheet for 1/2".

For a cadillac vs. Vw, i would think you'd compare 1/2" mdo to 8/4's western redwood all clear/heart, vertical grain sandblasted signs.....

rtg? NEVER! :ROFLMAO:

 

[calbanner]

Ours is about $68 a sheet, also. While $350 might sound high to you, it sounds about normal to me. The part I don't understand is 1 for $350 or 2 for $350

Anyway, you could do this for the $118 the other guy quoted ??

Mistyped that should be $300 each for 2.


I would rather work at McDonalds for the day.....than make that sign for $118.

 

[trakers]

i would rather work at mcdonalds for the day.....than make that sign for $118.

 

[SignManiac]

Without seeing the design work involved, nobody here has a right to say $350.00 is too high a price. You just can't price a sign by size. I've sold 4'x8' m.d.o. signs for $1,200.00 when others told me they could only get $200.00.

I can tell you that what I design and sell is superior to what my competition would put out. There are too many variables in pricing to say one size fits all. A good designer can easily get more money and the client will even smile paying for it.

 

[Gino]

Without seeing the design work involved, nobody here has a right to say $350.00 is too high a price. You just can't price a sign by size. I've sold 4'x8' m.d.o. signs for $1,200.00 when others told me they could only get $200.00.

I can tell you that what I design and sell is superior to what my competition would put out. There are too many variables in pricing to say one size fits all. A good designer can easily get more money and the client will even smile paying for it.

While I completely agree with that, in this case the OP's insert said it was 1-piece 3' x 5' with two colors of vinyl for a name and a phone number. I don't think we can figure on a real estate sign with that copy on it being too difficult for a double-sided sign. I'm not one for shooting from the hip, but I doubt this is gonna be terribly expensive or hard to figure out. As far as the design, it's probably a cookie-cutter set up or A-Rama wouldn't be selling it for next to nothing.

 

[SignManiac]

While I completely agree with that, in this case the OP's insert said it was 1-piece 3' x 5' with two colors of vinyl for a name and a phone number. I don't think we can figure on a real estate sign with that copy on it being too difficult for a double-sided sign. I'm not one for shooting from the hip, but I doubt this is gonna be terribly expensive or hard to figure out. As far as the design, it's probably a cookie-cutter set up or A-Rama wouldn't be selling it for next to nothing.

True Gino. I should have read closer on the specs. But I still wouldn't find $350.00 outrageous. Rush charges sometimes factor in pricing or if the two colors were artwork that needed to be scanned in and cleaned up. I'd have to see the actual job before I would claim the price was high or not.

 

[Baz]

My cost on MDO is more or less 45.00$ a sheet ... RAW ... I put 2 coats of oil based paint myself. One primer and one enamel. If i'm using the paint background i will give two coats of enamel. Factory paint is total crap.

 

[darby07]

My cost on MDO is more or less 45.00$ a sheet ... RAW ... I put 2 coats of oil based paint myself. One primer and one enamel. If i'm using the paint background i will give two coats of enamel. Factory paint is total crap.

 

[OldPaint]

AND........by the time you get done priming and painting that sheet of MDO.........YOU ARE FAR MORE THEN $75....into it)))))

 

[Baz]

AND........by the time you get done priming and painting that sheet of MDO.........YOU ARE FAR MORE THEN $75....into it)))))

If doing just one then it's verry expensive. But when i buy it, usually it's no less than 10 - 15 sheets at a time. I give them the two coats and keep them in stock.

 

[Gino]

True Gino. I should have read closer on the specs. But I still wouldn't find $350.00 outrageous. Rush charges sometimes factor in pricing or if the two colors were artwork that needed to be scanned in and cleaned up. I'd have to see the actual job before I would claim the price was high or not.

Oh..... no. I don't think the OP's price was outta hand at all. In fact, it's closer to the going price in general. For guys like you and me.... $118 could be done and we'd still make a profit [you know what I mean], but for the average sign shop without a good set up, they need to get good prices.

I know of an A-Rama, nearby us.... and they get outrageously high prices. Granted, they aren't very busy and their quality is next to p!ss poor, but they manage to land suckers the first time around. Not much repeat work for them at all. The owner is a good schmoozer. Now, their sister company, about 30 miles down the road who also do p!ss poor work get more realistic prices and are busy. We do work for the guy 30 miles away, but not the one across town. Go figure ??

We're busier than a one-armed flute player.... and our prices ain't cheap. It seems when we get busy, we tend to then get busier immediately... creating a false sense of security, so I quote with a sharp pencil all the time. Sometimes if a job comes through and I don't want to do it, I'll bid so stoopidly high I won't get it, but if we do.... it's like icing on the cake. And that's what's been happening lately to us. I don't need a reality check, I'm married, so that's taken care of, but I wanna take a breather and am a little afraid with the amount of work coming through, someone might drop the ball. Most of these are first time customers with a very good prospect of becoming totally repeat customers. Stepping gingerly, but also keeping busy.