Glass permanently etched by decals?

[kls]

Hi I’m a professional window cleaner of over 20 years. I’ve never installed window decals/signs but I remove them from time to time and or remove the adhesive after someone else removes the signage. A typical scenario would be a retail store changing ownership and a contractor comes in to do a build out and I get hired to do the post construction window cleaning. There have been a handful of times when after the decal is removed the glass is permanently etched. For example a decal in the shape of a letter is removed and now that letter is etched into the glass. I’m wondering if the adhesives used are known to do this? Or perhaps an acid etch is ever used to prep the glass for the adhesive?
Thanks

 

[CanuckSigns]

Is its individual cut letters, the vinyl is actually protecting the glass so when it's removed you can see where it's been. I've seen the same with unlaminated perf.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

It's ghosting in the tint. The letter protects the tint from UV rays.

 

[Johnny Best]

In the sixties we would sometimes do acid before lettering the window.

 

[kls]

Thanks for the replies. What I am asking about is a true etching of the glass on glass without any tint. The etch is significant enough to catch a finger nail. Scratches due to razors or abrasive pads leave very unique and different signature scratches. One of the store fronts I have seen this on was built in 2008.
Just something I’ve been curious about for awhile and never been able to find an answer to.
Thanks

 

[unclebun]

There is sometimes a very hard ridge of dirt crusted into adhesive left at the edges of the letters. It won't come off with the usual adhesive remover techniques involving wiping, but it will come off. We usually combine citrus adhesive remover with a razor blade to plane it off. Other than ghosting in the tint that is the only thing I've ever seen. Are you seeing that the glass behind the letter is higher or lower than the surrounding area? For example, on fiberglass boats, we often see that the gelcoat around the letters has been eroded by sunlight and possibly washing and polishing so that after you remove the letters and adhesive you have the words all nice and glossy and raised in relief from the dull, worn surrounding fiberglass.

 

[kls]

The glass behind the letter is lower. -thanks

 

[unclebun]

That is not something that is known to happen. I've never heard about it read about and certainly haven't experienced it in almost 30 years in the business. Considering that most outdoor vinyl doesn't last past 7-8 years anyway, it's unlikely it happens very often.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

That is not something that is known to happen. I've never heard about it read about and certainly haven't experienced it in almost 30 years in the business. Considering that most outdoor vinyl doesn't last past 7-8 years anyway, it's unlikely it happens very often.

I agree... I've never seen anything like what OP is talking about. Can OP supply pictures???

 

[kls]

Thanks for the info. I’ll see if I can get a decent photo.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Maybe it is the solvent based adhesive that is doing it. Vinyl does the same with painted steel. A lot of times when you sandblast off the paint, the lettering is actually ghosted into the steel. You can also remove vinyl, remove the adhesive, sand it, paint over it and still see the lettering clear as day. On things with old decals, you have to go all the way to the metal, high build over it, sand it and then paint it to make it go away. Its strange.

 

[gnubler]

In the sixties we would sometimes do acid before lettering the window.

Groovy Trippin' Signs?

 

[karst41]

Hi I’m a professional window cleaner of over 20 years. I’ve never installed window decals/signs but I remove them from time to time and or remove the adhesive after someone else removes the signage. A typical scenario would be a retail store changing ownership and a contractor comes in to do a build out and I get hired to do the post construction window cleaning. There have been a handful of times when after the decal is removed the glass is permanently etched. For example a decal in the shape of a letter is removed and now that letter is etched into the glass. I’m wondering if the adhesives used are known to do this? Or perhaps an acid etch is ever used to prep the glass for the adhesive?
Thanks

Yes Sir,

I changed out some hours yesterday, and the ghosting is there.
Also if you letter a vehicle the imaging can go straight to the Metal.

First time i heard of this I thought it to be a Spook Story, the Kaiser Sose'
of images.
The determination from a rather smart individual, concluded that it was the Adhesive that creates the issue.

But in all cases the decals were i place for more than two years

For Automotive if you down to the bare metal 800 gr and a sealer resolves it
as in the process of the repair.

With Glass and or Tinted this will have a similar effect (indirrect) on the tinting.
If your customer is pms'ing about the imaging on the glass, then they
will need to pay you to redo the lettering and to Polish the glass with steel wool.

Look up automotive detailing / windshields.

Hope this helps.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

There is sometimes a very hard ridge of dirt crusted into adhesive left at the edges of the letters. It won't come off with the usual adhesive remover techniques involving wiping, but it will come off. We usually combine citrus adhesive remover with a razor blade to plane it off. Other than ghosting in the tint that is the only thing I've ever seen. Are you seeing that the glass behind the letter is higher or lower than the surrounding area? For example, on fiberglass boats, we often see that the gelcoat around the letters has been eroded by sunlight and possibly washing and polishing so that after you remove the letters and adhesive you have the words all nice and glossy and raised in relief from the dull, worn surrounding fiberglass.

This is what it sounds like to me. I've removed some lettering that I thought etched the glass as well. Alcohol & adhesive remover wouldn't touch it. I had to get a stainless scraper blade and scrape it off with soapy water. It took some work, but it did eventually come off.

 

[Stacey K]

Back to this thread. So I just had a customer who has a shop on the South side so the sun never hits the window. The previous tenats cut vinyl is ghosted in the glass. She was a tenant for many years. If the sun isn't hitting it how is it ghosting? Anything I can do about it? The lettering was on the inside so could it have happened from fluorescent bulbs? IDK

 

[Notarealsignguy]

They have acid cleaners for glass to help get rid of water etching. A detailer we used showed us this so maybe look into the car detail supply places for something that will work

 

[tulsagraphics]

There is sometimes a very hard ridge of dirt crusted into adhesive left at the edges of the letters. It won't come off with the usual adhesive remover techniques involving wiping, but it will come off. We usually combine citrus adhesive remover with a razor blade to plane it off. Other than ghosting in the tint that is the only thing I've ever seen. Are you seeing that the glass behind the letter is higher or lower than the surrounding area? For example, on fiberglass boats, we often see that the gelcoat around the letters has been eroded by sunlight and possibly washing and polishing so that after you remove the letters and adhesive you have the words all nice and glossy and raised in relief from the dull, worn surrounding fiberglass.

+1 for citrus cleaner, but get the good stuff -- not the trash from Walmart or automotive stores. You want 85% concentrate (in spray) or up to 92% (in aerosol). It can be found in the bigger roofing supply stores -- my friend manufactures it and sells to to a lot of the big roofing supply chains like ABC). Combine that with some of those plastic scraper blades and you can remove virtually anything. Be sure to neutralize / clean with alcohol after.

 

[GaSouthpaw]

Back to this thread. So I just had a customer who has a shop on the South side so the sun never hits the window. The previous tenats cut vinyl is ghosted in the glass. She was a tenant for many years. If the sun isn't hitting it how is it ghosting? Anything I can do about it? The lettering was on the inside so could it have happened from fluorescent bulbs? IDK

Even if there's no direct sun hitting it, over time, it'll still ghost. Plus- vinyl shrinkage lets dirt get embedded in the adhesive residue left behind (as someone else mentioned, I believe). This is especially true if the people who did the vinyl used anything less than hi performance, cast vinyl.

 

[MrDav3C]

Another thing to consider is that glass is not a solid but actually an extremely slow moving liquid. Over a long period of time (years) ink / colour can migrate into glass.

Not sure how or if you can get it out again but it's certainly worth considering!