Going crazy trying to print the right BLACK... (Substance material/Moto graphics)

[ProVogue]

I have an XC-540.. Doing all my designs in Illustrator and sending that to versaworks.
I'm printing on Substance material for motocross graphics.

I have ran a million different tests to get the right black and I have no idea where to turn now. I've tried the pure black versaworks spot color, and every recommended CMYK value for black as well. I've even tried both CMYK and RGB settings before I print the sample. (I am using the right profile for the material as well)

Every black I get has a slight tint of either purple or brown. The only catch is, you can't see it until the sun hits it. Being that it has a slight color in it, it makes it look metallic under the sun and when a rider scratches it up - They look trashed!

Does anyone have a clue what could be the issue? Thanks for any advice.

 

[Andriy]

You could try only printing the black ink without the cyan etc... then maybe play with passes to get the desired rich black.

 

[myront]

Trying to match vehicle colors is very difficult as the paint usually has a metallic flake added to it. DO NOT USE C0 M0 Y0 K100! We use 45, 45, 45, 100. If you use a printer that has Lm and Lc try using a profile that's CMYK only.

 

[54warrior]

Try:

C: 82
M: 66
Y: 62
K 83



That's what I send my print shop and they are using a Roland VersaExpress RF-640, with Substance material. Subastance sent him an .ai file with their recommended Roland color settings. I have it, but cannot upload an .ai or .zip file to share it. Maybe you have this already, if not, PM me and its worth a shot.

 

[BALLPARK]

I use an XC-540 and use the following to print a great looking rich black.

60/40/60/100 using versaworks RIP software.

 

[ProVogue]

Trying to match vehicle colors is very difficult as the paint usually has a metallic flake added to it. DO NOT USE C0 M0 Y0 K100! We use 45, 45, 45, 100. If you use a printer that has Lm and Lc try using a profile that's CMYK only.

This is specifically for motocross graphics. Once theyre laminated and in the sun they really give off a metallic look that looks horrible after its been scratched. I'm sure its because of a color mixing in with the black.

 

[ProVogue]

I use an XC-540 and use the following to print a great looking rich black.

60/40/60/100 using versaworks RIP software.

Thanks - Are you printing on Substance material by chance?

 

[BALLPARK]

Thanks - Are you printing on Substance material by chance?

I have not used that color with Substance material, sorry. But I think you will find that it will still produce a rich black when viewing inside or outside.

Good luck!

 

[Jester1167]

I would think for motocross you would laminate the graphics so they don't get scratched?

I used to use C 60 M60 Y 0 K 100 for a deep rich black with minimal ink saturation. It tends to be on the purple side if you fade it though so only use it for spot black. Many of the other formulas will work as well but if you add all the numbers up and they are over 280% you run the risk of hitting the ink limit and then the rip picks what to throw way and you lose control over your colors.

Part of the color tint your seeing in the sun light could be because of the head order. When you print bi-directional, the K channel isn't always the last and other colors are on top of it. You can really see it printing 4 pass banners. If that is the problem try printing more passes and/or uni-directional...

Just remembered that all the print head anomalies show up more when printing low pass banners; banding - due to feed, banding due to missing nozzles, over spray, ink starvation... And with that thought, do you have a lot of missing/deflected nozzles on your black head? That could add to the changing ink density of your blacks as well.

 

[Sign Works]

I recently found that RGB (0,0,0) black with Orajet 3651 profile prints an incredible black, it lays a ton of ink but is black, black, black!

 

[InstantImpression]

If you are trying to get a Super Black. One trick I have learned is to Bring back all the other colors about 50% in versaworks up the black and then do a Double Print and Slow it way down so it covers everything. The thick Moto Material pores expand alot with heat so you need to fill them in before its coated and dried. good Luck. I am not sure if this will help but I know I have done a ton of Moto stuff.

Cant wait to see Final Product!

 

[Solventinkjet]

I have been hearing a lot about people sending the job over to the RIP as an RGB file instead of CMYK to reach deeper blacks. So far from what I have seen, it works well.

 

[SightLine]

No clue how versaworks handles stuff but we always use RGB mode these days and always use RGB 0,0,0 for black. In design software CMYK has a crippled and limited gamut compared to RGB and also makes larger files.

 

[rjssigns]

We run 30-30-30-100 for black. Next step if you haven't tried it is set for either Max Impact or Sign and Display under the Color Management tab in VW.

 

[myront]

I have been hearing a lot about people sending the job over to the RIP as an RGB file instead of CMYK to reach deeper blacks. So far from what I have seen, it works well.

Just be careful sending an rgb 000 color as an eps or pdf to print. RIP will convert it as 0, 0, 0, 100 or Process Black. If all your blacks are filled rgb 000 AND send as rgb tiff then you're good. If all your blacks are rgb 000 and you send it as an eps to print blacks won't be as rich.

 

[shoresigns]

Change your colour management setting from Pre-Press US to Sign & Display, then try printing K100. That's what we do on our XC-540 and we get great blacks. We sometimes add equal amounts of CMY to go a bit darker but K100 is usually fine for most things.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I use Substance media a lot!! They make some great materials!! I am using an Epson S70 through Caldera, designs done in Illustrator. I don't remember all of my settings in the RIP, but I get the best black when using 0,0,0,100. For me just using 100% K, the blacks are deep and not tinted at all. BUT, I know when I had my Roland I got the best black from one of the Roland color swatches.

 

[ejmoan]

Blacks

I print on that material with an hp latex and use 10 10 10 100 and it looks great. Not sure how different your printer is?

 

[ejmoan]

Oh ya

My ai cs6 has a bug that coverts some files to rgb that print my blacks brownish if the file is rgb the color mode need needs to be cmyk in ai. Usually happens when opening a photo and then working. You can set a warning for this in ai too.

 

[oksigns]

I run Pre-Press US and colormetric under versaworks after media has been profiled, and I get fantastic results. It's all about that profile.

I have found, to get absolute blacks under my setup, is to use "Register Black" in my AI artwork. If it is raster artwork, I may have to adjust the contrast to achieve the punch without messing with ink limits in the RIP itself.