Got Caught..................

[Gino]

I don't get this part. If you don't make any mistakes and all goes well with the order, do you reduce the price for the customer?

I don't build a mistake factor into my pricing. If we make a mistake, we bite the bullet and might lose some money on that job. Our profit from an order is figured from materials and shop rate.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't get it.


Dave

A little background. This has been a good customer of ours for over 25 years, so although she didn't give me a month and just date numbers, I.... for some reason, typed in the concert was August 24 and the raindate was June 25th. I never saw the mistake and neither did she on the proof.

So, we've been doing their trucks, police cruisers, event signs, banners, borough signs for a long long time. Needless to say, we even give them freebies from time to time and we give a sizable donation on every Police cruiser or vehicle we do.

These people get billed and pay in less than 10 days for everything we do for them. We're one of the few that don't wait 60 days. So for good pay, we offer great service. It's a win/win situation.

As for not understanding the 'mistake factor' as you put it... we call it a 'loss factor'. Each and every job, let's say over $50 or so has a percentage of the overall job attached to it. If we make a mistake, it helps cover the mistake. If no mistakes are made.... it's added to the profit line. So, if your shop or company produces $10,000 this week and let's say you have figured in about $450.00.... if you have a small hiccup, you have money already figured into your equation. Most of the time, no mistakes are made, so you have this factor building all the time.... kinda like an Unemployment fund. It just keeps growing until you need it one day. If you continually need to dip into it... you're doing something dangerously wrong.

I learned this from a real estate guy many years ago. He was looking to list the building we were renting and asked if we were interested in purchasing it. I said... heck no....... half the apartments are empty and it seems hard to keep the ones that are already here. He said, when you own a building, you always have a negative factor built in to your rental units. If the place isn't being rented, you still have reserve from when it was and the others being rented to help pay for utilities, taxes and so forth. Every business has waste. Waste of employees using too many paper towels, spills paint or ink, water hits a roll of media, someone dropped a sign and it broke....... who pays for these losses that you obviously have not figured on happening ?? You do ?? Nope, not any more. Each and every sign we ever did has contributed towards these unforeseen accidents, whether a mistake on proofing or something an employee did or I did.... it's all good.

When I first started doing this, I called it my 'Sh!t Factor', but that didn't look good on the notes in the margin, so I changed it to 'Loss Factor' and it sounds so much better.


I mentioned paper towels. A friend of mine has a very successful Taco business. He travels up and down the east coast to carnivals, fairs and other events, selling his tacos, french fries, hot dogs and sodas. He has I believe 8 huge trailers and makes a mint. He once told me..... you know, when you wash your hands, you'll take one towel, dry your hands and if it ain't too dirty, you might drape it over the sink and use it for drying something else next time. You pay the bills, so you're careful. However, an employee will wash his hands and when he hits that roll of towels it spins around like a slot machine and they waste a third of the roll while doing it. Ya know, that is so true in so many cases..........

Hope that clears a few things up.

ps.. they're re-printing them as I type.
​

 

[Gino]

Let me get this right Gino. If you make a mistake or blunder, you admit to it. Then if a client stuffs up, you will take the blame, they will not, MMMMMM. OK. NO WAY, I say sub out your money chasing, or make it look that way,send a Debt recovery company letter, LOL, even when you confronted me before, you did not go for the kill.
BASICS ARE, client signs off, THEY LIABLE, Clients says go ahead and no signature, dont start.

And with that kinda thinking.... that is why you are a vinyl instructor and don't own a business and we have quite a good thing going in our area.

 

[SD&F]

We all make mistakes and like Gino, it depends on the customer and the situation.

I have had to re-do because someone made an error. Maybe them, maybe me....in the long run if it's a good customer, then it's good business.

 

[petepaz]

over 21 years this has happened a few times (more than i would like) the majority of the customers really don't examine their proofs like they should. usually we can get something from them, like just cover material or split the difference. there have also been occasions like yours where it was a good customer who gives you a lot of business and you just eat the whole thing. Unfortunately I think it’s just part of the business and just hope it doesn’t happen too much.

 

[gnemmas]

Like Gino's philosophy, our job is to make our customer looks good.

As our best customers are usually not Owners that pay out of their pockets. They are employees that are in the position of ordering sign products. Price usually is not the issue. It is SERVICE.

So if we can cover their butts for lack of planning (unreasonable deadlines), overlook a proof, etc., you have their business for good.

 

[showcase 66]

I had a guy who just started working from one of my best clients give me a call about the business cards they have. I did their cards about 4 years ago and pretty much every 2-3 months they order 2500 more.

Anyway, this guy calls me who I have never spoke with before, and he starts right in that I have screwed up their cards and how pissed the owner was. Could barely get a word in. Then I could hear in the background people laughing which then the guy on the phone couldnt keep an upset tone. The owner was just messing with me but it did turn out that there was a mistake on the cards.

On the back of the card there was a statement about assistance with medical something. On the card for 4 years the statement was *** STANCE WITH MEDICAL BLAH BLAH. The font was small and we never noticed it.

I felt embarrassed as hell once I saw that. They were not upset as he said he should have seen it along time ago as well. His next order of 2500 cards was upgraded to 5k at no extra charge.

 

[threeputt]

If a signed off "proof" isn't useful in establishing who's error it is, then why use the "proofing" process at all? And if you're going to go-ahead and fix everything at your expense, even the client errors, then that simply dilutes the whole process. Makes it somewhat meaningless.

Bad business model, IMO.

Not to say we haven't tried to help out a client who's made a mistake. We might print some over-lay decals that will correct the wording...and do that at our cost. But only with a really good clients, or because of some other extenuating circumstance.

With every proof we send out, we direct their attention to the fact that it's very important that they check it out very carefully.

You have to draw attention to that fact. Sometimes a client only looks at the colors (if that's their main concern) or only looks at the layout etc.

They may not be thinking about the contact information, small text etc.

That's why we say:
"THIS IS YOUR PROOF! Check it carefully for omissions, content, and errors. Your sign-off on this proof is the way the job will be printed."

How in the world are us signmakers to know about a date? or a detail? We print what we're told. By the way, we always are on the lookout for spelling errors the client might make, but always inform them we'd like them to check the proof over very carefully.

 

[Gino]

If a signed off "proof" isn't useful in establishing who's error it is, then why use the "proofing" process at all? And if you're going to go-ahead and fix everything at your expense, even the client errors, then that simply dilutes the whole process. Makes it somewhat meaningless.

Bad business model, IMO.

Not to say we haven't tried to help out a client who's made a mistake. We might print some over-lay decals that will correct the wording...and do that at our cost. But only with a really good clients, or because of some other extenuating circumstance.

With every proof we send out, we direct their attention to the fact that it's very important that they check it out very carefully.

You have to draw attention to that fact. Sometimes a client only looks at the colors (if that's their main concern) or only looks at the layout etc.

They may not be thinking about the contact information, small text etc.

That's why we say:
"THIS IS YOUR PROOF! Check it carefully for omissions, content, and errors. Your sign-off on this proof is the way the job will be printed."

How in the world are us signmakers to know about a date? or a detail? We print what we're told. By the way, we always are on the lookout for spelling errors the client might make, but always inform them we'd like them to check the proof over very carefully.

Evidently, you missed the part where I said I changed the month from June to August. :ROFLMAO:

She said this concert is the 24th and raindate 25th. For some reason, I changed the June to August without realizing I did it. So, perhaps she was thinking the dates were correct, but never told me to change the month, so she might not have been looking for it.... same as me. I changed it and although she had a proof, she didn't see it. This particular concert is always in June for the last 15 or so years. We do I think about 8 or 10 of these concerts and their activities a year for them. Whether I had just been doing a sign for August, or scheduled a truck or sign order for August and August was still fresh in my mind.... I don't know. I screwed it up and neither of us saw it. How can I blame her ??

The business model here is..... she was right and I was wrong, but she caught the mistake before it went out the door.... not me. My proof was wrong.

We followed this. It took less than 35 minutes to do all three over again and about $8.00 worth of ink.

I think we recovered from a potentially lousy problem rather well.

Don't you think 3pcs - 4' x 4' patches should be seen somewhere along the line if not on a proof ?? Shouldn't somebody have noticed this isn't possible ??

 

[sar bossier]

I completely agree with your philosophy, Gino! We had a VERY similar mistake this week, a 6' H x 3" L banner, that SOMEHOW (mystery!) ended up with a typo that was NOT on the approved proof. No question, excuse, or argument - we re-printed the banner. New client, as well ... you MUST give good customer service, in order to be successful, period.

 

[qmr55]

If a signed off "proof" isn't useful in establishing who's error it is, then why use the "proofing" process at all? And if you're going to go-ahead and fix everything at your expense, even the client errors, then that simply dilutes the whole process. Makes it somewhat meaningless.

Bad business model, IMO.

Not to say we haven't tried to help out a client who's made a mistake. We might print some over-lay decals that will correct the wording...and do that at our cost. But only with a really good clients, or because of some other extenuating circumstance.

With every proof we send out, we direct their attention to the fact that it's very important that they check it out very carefully.

You have to draw attention to that fact. Sometimes a client only looks at the colors (if that's their main concern) or only looks at the layout etc.

They may not be thinking about the contact information, small text etc.

That's why we say:
"THIS IS YOUR PROOF! Check it carefully for omissions, content, and errors. Your sign-off on this proof is the way the job will be printed."

How in the world are us signmakers to know about a date? or a detail? We print what we're told. By the way, we always are on the lookout for spelling errors the client might make, but always inform them we'd like them to check the proof over very carefully.

Yes, Gino could have said that was your fault and we will charge you again to reprint it (whether it be full price or discounted). Chance are, they would have had him reprint it, because they need it. With the way this business is run, he probably still made money even having to reprint it. So let's break it down for you, since it seems you can not follow, he will make a little money now PLUS more later for giving a customer courtesy and showing that they want the best for their CUSTOMERS. If he did it your way, yes he might have made some extra money now, but chances are they would have taken their business elsewhere for the next 15+ years resulting in Gino not making anymore money off of this customer, who obviously came to him in the first place for a reason....does that make sense now for you?

 

[Gino]

I'm not making fun or saying three's method is wrong. Not at all. I'm just saying it was my mistake and I don't see how under any circumstances, regardless of how many outs I give myself in the fine print..... this could be her mistake for responsibility.

Like gmr said, with our price formula.... we lost $8.00 in ink and about $14. in labor. The overall cost was $270 for the three panels. So, it's like getting $248. instead. No big deal. All of our other deadlines were met and we're all happy.

In fact, the borough manager just called an hour ago and ordered 80 signs for another function. It's all go-od.

We should never forget to proof our own proofs first. Therein lies the problem. I didn't see my own mistake. No matter how boggled down we get, we are in fact the professional and if I turn her stuff inside out, that's really my fault. Eventually it becomes a game of who can catch the hidden mistakes ?? Then we all lose.

I like the win/win scenario much better.

 

[SlightlyChilled]

How is Addie not jumping all over you Gino

his designs may suck but he never would mess up a date...


LOL just busting your chops

 

[Billct2]

I too would have fixed the job.
But, I also will point out threads like this when someone get reamed for not "having a signed proof" before starting a job. This always gets brought up when someone whines about a job gone wrong. Then there have been a number of threads along the line of this one, that "we are the professionals and should take responsibility".
There is definately a hypocrisy in there somewhere.
It just goes to show that business is sometimes more art than science, especially this business.

 

[Gino]

Hahaha.... He's probably out re-installing his window sign and making it straight this time.

 

[cdiesel]

Hahaha.... He's probably out re-installing his window sign and making it straight this time.

Doubt it. :Oops:

 

[Haze Grafix]

I stopped at another local screenprinter's shop a few years back as I helped them with some artwork from time to time. Anyhow they were about 150 shirts into a 400 shirt job. They printed the job the year prior which was the 3RD and that was large on the back of the shirt that year. They made a new screen and changed all the text except when they changed the 3RD to 4TH they changed the number but not the letters so it read 4RD. If I didn't stop when I did they would have had 400 shop rags instead or 150. Not funny but things happen. In the case of this thread the customer approved the art but it's a tough situation. Unfortunately best to just print it again corrected even though it was the customer's mistake.