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Gotta love the stupidity of some people....

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by WYLDGFI, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Merchant Member

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    So...get this email today about a banner we did back in december.

    "The large client banner which your company, Wyld Grand Format Printing supplied, has been ruined due directly or indirectly to the failure of your shop installed grommets to hold the banner securely against wind gusts. The material and grommets ripped out along the bottom (photos attached with damage highlighted) during a high wind event causing damage to the banner and printed area. The banner needs to be reprinted and properly supplied with pole pockets and wind vents or printed on a mesh banner material.

    I have looked to you, as a valued print shop, to supply both service and expertise where requested and needed. Your failure to professionally advise and setup the 240 square foot banner to withstand the elements has cost me a valuable client relationship and $1000’s in retainer income. As evidenced in several emails, you were consulted both before and after the printing and installation and failed to properly advise and supply a banner with the proper material and or setup.

    Recently we discussed a price reduction or replacement banner, both of which you have refused to consider. Accordingly I do not feel it is appropriate for me to pay your invoice."

    First off...consulting on this deal...non-existant. Told him needs to be drilled into the facade completely. Tensioned properly...etc.

    This was sent on January 31st...Day after a really bad storm blew thru here.

    This wind is ripping the grommets out even with a generous number of wind vents cut. This project has become a nightmare. What suggestions can you give?
    http://newjersey.news12.com/news/nj-cleans-up-after-overnight-storm-1.4540945
    If its not secured with but a few grommets and TAPE to a Building, what would you like me to do.?? Omg...
    "Whatever you recommend on the grommets. But we plan to mount with tape."

    Taping a 15x20 to the side of a building??? :banghead: lol...oh and it was Home Depot tape to boot. He didnt want to spend the money for VHB as well.
     
    Tags:
  2. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    wind or no wind, grommets can rip out due to high tension of the ropes tied...
    I'd tell your client that the banner was fine when it left the shop, install error and/or "act of god" applies here.
    however,
    I had 3 - 12' x 40' banners up last winter... wind slits, reinforced hems, overkill on grommets and ropes, and it STILL tore out the grommets when big storms came through. Had to fix it twice before the winter was over and the actual signage was finally green-lit for install. Cost me money everytime to fix, but rope-tied banners were the only option for this building and it made our client happy knowing that we would keep the banners alive until their final signage was secured to the side of the building.
     
  3. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Banners are temporary signs regardless of how they are mounted or someone wants to interpret their usage.
    Almost whenever someone orders a banner, we always tell them they are not guaranteed against anything. Weather can wreak havoc on them and we cannot go against the laws of Nature.

    I know some people out there can put a banner up and it will survive through most anything thrown against it... I'm not them. Go to them and compare your prices for a temporary sign and we'll see if you want to come back for a permanent sign, WHICH will survive anything but fire or vandalism.
    I'll never understand why so many people want a banner because of the savings in material cost and then wanna complain when their stoopid idea goes bust for them.

    Think of it like the Three Little Pigs.

    • Do you want straw ??
    • Do you want twigs ??
    • Do you want bricks ??
    • Do you want banner ??
    • Do you want CorX ??
    • Do you want metal ??

    It costs relatively the same to mount any of them, so why go with the cheap stuff right off the bat ??

    • Yep, I want a real fast car with a big motor and put go-cart tires on it. :banghead:


    I'd just send him a letter for what you did, stating you sold him a banner which is considered temporary in all 50 states of the union and if he can find someone to mend his banner, all the more power to him. Give him 5 days to make this payment or you will immediately turn him/her over for collection.
     
  4. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    some people do not understand acts of god. it was a freaking windstorm, is there any common sense in the world anymore. And wrote that damn letter a person learning to be an attorney, quite wordy over a banner. i bet they really get pissed off when their coroplast yards sign go missing
     
  5. S'N'S

    S'N'S Active Member

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    In windy areas I don't use grommets for the ropes, I use a full length rope pocket top and bottom. The only grommets are in the 4 corners to pull the banner tight.
     
  6. signpost-boston

    signpost-boston Making America great, one sign at a time.

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    i agree with y'all above. Banners are not permanent signs. banners are a fabric material. grommets suck during a windstorm. even if i HEM it with a strip of PVC with a grommet attached to it, the banner rips away from that area...
    i would reprint it with pole pockets and charge them for the pole holders you now have to install into the building.
    truthfully, at least there was enough profit in the job to reprint the entire banner...
     
  7. thinksigns

    thinksigns SnowFlake

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    Not that I would guarantee a banner install, I would tell the customer they were crazy if they wanted me to guarantee a banner install that I didn't actually do the install.

    What has happened in the month since this happened?
     
  8. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Merchant Member

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    I just printed the banner....this guy who I quoted installed it himself. I made suggestions about anchoring it to the building in multiple ways....doing mesh...etc. Nothing I said sold this guy on it the proven trusted methods and wound up doing it his own way.
     
  9. thinksigns

    thinksigns SnowFlake

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    I guess they expect you to guarantee the replacement banner against winds strong enough to down utility poles.
     
  10. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    I don't guarantee banners I install, much less one someone else installs.
     
  11. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Merchant Member

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    Yeah....guess the fact trees were ripped down doesn't hold water either.
     
  12. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    Get him to agree with you that it was an "Act of God".
    Then tell him you don't believe in God and send him on his way.

    I'd like to hear more about how the tape was used.
    Never thought of using tape on an exterior banner to hold it to a building.

    wayne k
    guam usa
     
  13. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Merchant Member

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    I have no clue what he did with the tape on this damn thing. Oh yea...one more thing...he asked me at one point if the banner material we use has plasticizer in it. They all freaking do!!! He said something about how the tape reacts to the plasticizer and doesnt adhere correctly. Here we go now...hit is partly how it was mounted....
    Directly quoted: "The banner is on top of a 30 foot high industrial roof and taped secured along the top. I would like to lay it out flat and cut it on the roof. What do you recommend for circle size, number of cuts and placements to avoid wind damage? Any tips will be appreciated. Thanks."

    My tip for him....dont install banners for a living. Leave it to true professionals!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  14. ol'phart

    ol'phart Member

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    Really?

    Using the same logic, the person whos car gets smashed by a falling tree in the windstorm should get his car replaced because it was the manufacturers responsibility to build the car to withstand the windstorm. After all the tree is only a plant.
     
  15. This guy definitely had high expectations and little knowledge of what he was dealing with, now he's trying to make it look like you didn't educate him before the sell. I hope you get it worked out. I used to take regular beatings from architects who would try to pull the same stuff and act ignorant to the fact that I had offered a more expensive and workable solution. Really silly to think of the arguments I've had over $60-200 worth or ink, paper, laminate, and fomecore of all things.

    edit: Post# 311 :rock-n-roll:
     
  16. ol'phart

    ol'phart Member

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    The only warrantee my customers get with a banner is that if it tears down the middle they get to keep both halves.

    Good Luck
     
  17. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Merchant Member

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    OH man....I love it. I was standing here watching the wind blowing outside tonite thinking the same exact thing!!
     
  18. chitown928

    chitown928 New Member

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    I think application is everything along with location and proper installation. I have a 10'x16' banner i installed about 8 years ago onto the side of a building. Its still freaking up. No repeat business there but it was installed correctly and still being used. Sometimes installation is everything. I just seen banners last week. Still no tears. Damn.
     
  19. weaselboogie

    weaselboogie Very Active Member

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    Was this installed directly to a wall? If so, why did they insist on wind vents?
     
  20. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Merchant Member

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    It was installed directly on a building. I did not recommend wind slits to them in this case. They decided to do that themselves. Apparently the wind was getting behind it somehow and caused stress on the banner.

    Its completely their fault for bad installation. He is in no way a professional installer of items like this.

    We have had much larger banners done and put up without any failures of any sort.
     
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