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Graphic design classes
- Thread starter Boomer
- Start date
Shovelhead
New Member
That's the equivalent of taking electrician classes.
GK
New Member
Online classes I would say could be the worst choice for any sort of creative looking to better themselves. One of the biggest gains of physical classes for this field is being hands on surrounded by other like minded creative people. Lots of motivation to be had by surrounding yourself with people that share the same interest.
GypsyGraphics
New Member
Look for a local college that offers extension courses. I think most extension programs are taught by working professionals. They offer an advantage that you won't get from an instructor who spends all their time in a classroom and not in a work environment.
There are so many members on this site who, as I'm reading their posts, I find myself thinking they'd be wonderful instructors. Essentially, they are teaching... posting a question here is like raising your hand in class.
There are so many members on this site who, as I'm reading their posts, I find myself thinking they'd be wonderful instructors. Essentially, they are teaching... posting a question here is like raising your hand in class.
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Electronic design, Digital design... what does that mean?
Do you want to learn design concept? Or design programs? Do you want to stay in signs or do more types of design, do you want to stick to mom and pops, mid-range business or high end clients?
Reading at some older post, I'm guessing you might be 40-50 years old? From what you said you have(had) a full time job and do this at night and your wife is trying to run the business. That probably means you are too old to get a job at a shop to learn from the bottom up and you don't want to waste anymore time not understanding design?... (I remember an old BBQ post of yours.) and you probably can't go to a brick and mortar school because of work.
Has your work been improving? It would be nice to see it before tossing out names...
I am asking for a reason, there are schools that specialize in certain types of design. We are a sign forum, so I'm guessing you want to learn general graphic design, otherwise there is the high end environmental graphic design. That would mean different schools.
I'm not a big fan of Art Institute but I know a few good designers who have gone there, most that I know would say it was more them having some talent than the school and I would tend to agree. Art Institute schools that I have heard about tend to lean toward software/technical than concept. Getting a degree in design software is like having a degree in pencil.
The problem with Art Institute's online school is that it's about the same price as SCAD (http://www.scad.edu/elearning/) generally a more respected school and more on the design concept end, so why not get schooling from a better school?
Have you looked into DCAD OR Corcoran?
http://www.dcad.edu/
http://www.corcoran.edu
If you want to learn software there is www.Lynda.com
To find out anymore about your area you might try going to an event at your local AIGA... that might be here:
http://www.aigaphilly.org/
http://www.aigadc.org/
Do you want to learn design concept? Or design programs? Do you want to stay in signs or do more types of design, do you want to stick to mom and pops, mid-range business or high end clients?
Reading at some older post, I'm guessing you might be 40-50 years old? From what you said you have(had) a full time job and do this at night and your wife is trying to run the business. That probably means you are too old to get a job at a shop to learn from the bottom up and you don't want to waste anymore time not understanding design?... (I remember an old BBQ post of yours.) and you probably can't go to a brick and mortar school because of work.
Has your work been improving? It would be nice to see it before tossing out names...
I am asking for a reason, there are schools that specialize in certain types of design. We are a sign forum, so I'm guessing you want to learn general graphic design, otherwise there is the high end environmental graphic design. That would mean different schools.
I'm not a big fan of Art Institute but I know a few good designers who have gone there, most that I know would say it was more them having some talent than the school and I would tend to agree. Art Institute schools that I have heard about tend to lean toward software/technical than concept. Getting a degree in design software is like having a degree in pencil.
The problem with Art Institute's online school is that it's about the same price as SCAD (http://www.scad.edu/elearning/) generally a more respected school and more on the design concept end, so why not get schooling from a better school?
Have you looked into DCAD OR Corcoran?
http://www.dcad.edu/
http://www.corcoran.edu
If you want to learn software there is www.Lynda.com
To find out anymore about your area you might try going to an event at your local AIGA... that might be here:
http://www.aigaphilly.org/
http://www.aigadc.org/
Biker Scout
New Member
This may not be a very popular opinion... but I'll share it anyway. Design Schools and Graphic Arts Degrees are CRAP! They waste a lot of really talented people's time and fill their heads with sh*! that won't ever serve them in a workplace. Also, the ones where you get a 4 year degree, well, they actually tell them that they are going to be making upwards of $50-60k per year in that field. That's how the schools justify the tuition. It's pathetic.
Nearly every kid that comes to my shop with a lame portfolio, I can tell just by looking at the pieces that they came from a design school. Nearly every person who I know that actually has a degree is also working at Kinkos or maybe a larger print shop lucky to be making $15 per hour. And they can't even pay their student loans back with that. Sure there are stories of that one chick in your class got hired on at a major firm and is making $80 starting out... but those are the outliers. Very far and few between. Chances are 90% of the other students in the same class had more talent as far as art and design go.
You want to become a better designer... study design just by reading the latest trend magazines. Go to this site, and subscribe to their magazine, and even get their book in print too. www.bamagazine.com
I'm telling you, I know from experience... you only get better by learning in the field... not in a classroom. Now if you don't know how to use Dreamweaver or Flash, that's one thing... they actually have classes specifically for those at your local community college, or there are really good tutorial books available for those. But wasting your time by taking classes on Design Theory, Art Theory and Art History, and an entire class devoted to putting together a Portfolio, as well as a bunch of other really nonsensical classes, just to fulfill some sort of broad based curriculum bull shit, you are wasting your time and money.
See the way I look at it, is this... as far as an artistic ability or an eye for design, either you've got it or you don't. Learning the finer points and details as to what makes a good design can be learned and learned quickly. That set of magazines I pointed to earlier... I promise, that's a college education if you read them and put the little samples into practice.
Nearly every kid that comes to my shop with a lame portfolio, I can tell just by looking at the pieces that they came from a design school. Nearly every person who I know that actually has a degree is also working at Kinkos or maybe a larger print shop lucky to be making $15 per hour. And they can't even pay their student loans back with that. Sure there are stories of that one chick in your class got hired on at a major firm and is making $80 starting out... but those are the outliers. Very far and few between. Chances are 90% of the other students in the same class had more talent as far as art and design go.
You want to become a better designer... study design just by reading the latest trend magazines. Go to this site, and subscribe to their magazine, and even get their book in print too. www.bamagazine.com
I'm telling you, I know from experience... you only get better by learning in the field... not in a classroom. Now if you don't know how to use Dreamweaver or Flash, that's one thing... they actually have classes specifically for those at your local community college, or there are really good tutorial books available for those. But wasting your time by taking classes on Design Theory, Art Theory and Art History, and an entire class devoted to putting together a Portfolio, as well as a bunch of other really nonsensical classes, just to fulfill some sort of broad based curriculum bull shit, you are wasting your time and money.
See the way I look at it, is this... as far as an artistic ability or an eye for design, either you've got it or you don't. Learning the finer points and details as to what makes a good design can be learned and learned quickly. That set of magazines I pointed to earlier... I promise, that's a college education if you read them and put the little samples into practice.
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Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
I can't say Biker Scout is wrong...
I don't have a design degree, only a few months at Art Center in California and a state University before dropping out, and I got pretty high up the environmental graphics/graphic design food chain before going on my own.
I have worked around 7 design school instructors by the way, they worked in the field and taught.
My experience is slightly different, all the designers I know personally, went to school and are making decent money. That may be because I have been employed longer than being self employed. Most of the design positions I have ever held, every designer had a degree or were in the process of getting one. I was taught concept design while being taught mechanics by a few mentors and I picked it up very quickly. I am also a huge book and magazine reader/collector. I did not learn it on my own, I was taught on the job.
I have looked at a million resumes and portfolios that came into the design firms I worked at. I would say that 80% were marginal to poor (to me). But of that 80%. More than half went to marginal schools. But the other 20% usually blew my mind.
I have not seen enough of your work or know you enough to make a determination if you need design school or not. I say before you do anything, get some work together and show someone who has no emotional interest in you to give you a fair evaluation of your work and what you need to work on. You might try participating more here showing more of your work for critique. The premium area might be a little safer to show if you are afraid a client will see the work online.
If you intend on picking a school, like any profession, there are the pedigree schools, and then there are the others. I'm not saying you can't learn design at the others or on your own, but there are schools that have a better reputation for getting designers in the workplace and if there is something specialized, like Pixar animation or Disney type signage, it helps to know the schools that can get you the job/work.
Personally, I think it's very difficult to learn this on your own with talent, if you have none or very little, you are going to have a very rough time of it when dealing with higher end clients. If you have lower end clients, it may not be a big deal as most do not know the difference unless you put good design in front of them.. and even then.
I don't have a design degree, only a few months at Art Center in California and a state University before dropping out, and I got pretty high up the environmental graphics/graphic design food chain before going on my own.
I have worked around 7 design school instructors by the way, they worked in the field and taught.
My experience is slightly different, all the designers I know personally, went to school and are making decent money. That may be because I have been employed longer than being self employed. Most of the design positions I have ever held, every designer had a degree or were in the process of getting one. I was taught concept design while being taught mechanics by a few mentors and I picked it up very quickly. I am also a huge book and magazine reader/collector. I did not learn it on my own, I was taught on the job.
I have looked at a million resumes and portfolios that came into the design firms I worked at. I would say that 80% were marginal to poor (to me). But of that 80%. More than half went to marginal schools. But the other 20% usually blew my mind.
I have not seen enough of your work or know you enough to make a determination if you need design school or not. I say before you do anything, get some work together and show someone who has no emotional interest in you to give you a fair evaluation of your work and what you need to work on. You might try participating more here showing more of your work for critique. The premium area might be a little safer to show if you are afraid a client will see the work online.
If you intend on picking a school, like any profession, there are the pedigree schools, and then there are the others. I'm not saying you can't learn design at the others or on your own, but there are schools that have a better reputation for getting designers in the workplace and if there is something specialized, like Pixar animation or Disney type signage, it helps to know the schools that can get you the job/work.
Personally, I think it's very difficult to learn this on your own with talent, if you have none or very little, you are going to have a very rough time of it when dealing with higher end clients. If you have lower end clients, it may not be a big deal as most do not know the difference unless you put good design in front of them.. and even then.
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Biker Scout
New Member
No problem... I give all my new hires a binder with every back issue up til like '03 or whatever. I tell them to read them all, and really try to learn what's taught in the mini lessons. They really offer practical solutions to good design. They show you, for example a typical, poorly laid out business card. And show you an improved version. But it doesn't stop there. They go on to explain the why something looks bad, and how to correct it. Often times with many alternate solutions. Basic color theory is often covered, as well as new design trends.
It's really a valuable tool, that I wish every designer used. I know a lot of sign guys use Mastering Layout by Mike Stevens, as their layout bible and starting point. But you got to remember, that book was first published in the mid 80's. Design and Signs have changed. A triangle behind a block of letters to tie in elements is rudimentary these days. Still, the fundamentals are sound and very well explained in his book. Just a flip through Sign Craft, you can see who has been influenced by him and many sign artists still design in that comfort zone. This is why for the most part, nearly every sign shop in the nation produces works that bear striking semblance to one another. I think it starts with the clipart packs they get when they first start out. HAHA
Anyway, design is a living breathing entity in our society and only the best recognize that and follow or create the trends. We can all recognize Art Decco Style, or turn of the century 1800's fonts and flurishes. Much like in 20 years from now, we will look on the grunge effect mixed with curved Old English over a straight banner. (Nods to ProWraps) and realize that is a style that's NOW. We may not like it as designers, but we also are the driving force behind what we see out in the world.
It's really a valuable tool, that I wish every designer used. I know a lot of sign guys use Mastering Layout by Mike Stevens, as their layout bible and starting point. But you got to remember, that book was first published in the mid 80's. Design and Signs have changed. A triangle behind a block of letters to tie in elements is rudimentary these days. Still, the fundamentals are sound and very well explained in his book. Just a flip through Sign Craft, you can see who has been influenced by him and many sign artists still design in that comfort zone. This is why for the most part, nearly every sign shop in the nation produces works that bear striking semblance to one another. I think it starts with the clipart packs they get when they first start out. HAHA
Anyway, design is a living breathing entity in our society and only the best recognize that and follow or create the trends. We can all recognize Art Decco Style, or turn of the century 1800's fonts and flurishes. Much like in 20 years from now, we will look on the grunge effect mixed with curved Old English over a straight banner. (Nods to ProWraps) and realize that is a style that's NOW. We may not like it as designers, but we also are the driving force behind what we see out in the world.
mark in tx
New Member
It all depends on what you feel you need to go to school for.
Do you want technical knowledge?
Do you want to expand your artistic expression?
Do you just want a sheepskin for the Resume?
I think online is basically good for technical education, what does "Kerning" mean? How do I use the magic wand in photoshop?
If you have artistic ability, and want to develop that, you really need to have hands on teaching, just no substitute.
Do you want technical knowledge?
Do you want to expand your artistic expression?
Do you just want a sheepskin for the Resume?
I think online is basically good for technical education, what does "Kerning" mean? How do I use the magic wand in photoshop?
If you have artistic ability, and want to develop that, you really need to have hands on teaching, just no substitute.
Biker Scout
New Member
Yeah, if you want to learn art... take art. Graphic Design is lazyman's art classes. It's not really art.
The two classes that I actually learned anything from in college was, Art & Argumentation.
The principles I learned in those two classes stuck with me, even to this day. The other stuff was horseshit.
The two classes that I actually learned anything from in college was, Art & Argumentation.
The principles I learned in those two classes stuck with me, even to this day. The other stuff was horseshit.
signguy 55
New Member
I agree with the other posts as far as designing is concerned you either have it or you don't. Can everyone be a diesel or jet engine mechanic? No. The ones that are were probably tearing things apart and trying to put them back together when they were in kindergarten. After they have basic knowledge, they go to school to get certified. I believe designing is similar. I know I have always doodled and drawn cartoon stuff, I still doing when I'm talking on the phone.
I remember an old SignCraft article. If you see a sign you like, explain to yourself "why" you like it, why is it effective, why did it catch your eye? Signs like that in most areas are few and far between.
The digital age has blurred the area where talent is needed and turning out a product.
And another thing, on my wish list would be a "designer" that knows how to convert a dadgum font to curves!!!!!!! I'm dealing with a tshirt designer now, I'm about to lose it if she doesn't understand what I need.
I remember an old SignCraft article. If you see a sign you like, explain to yourself "why" you like it, why is it effective, why did it catch your eye? Signs like that in most areas are few and far between.
The digital age has blurred the area where talent is needed and turning out a product.
And another thing, on my wish list would be a "designer" that knows how to convert a dadgum font to curves!!!!!!! I'm dealing with a tshirt designer now, I'm about to lose it if she doesn't understand what I need.
Joe Diaz
New Member
College is extremely valuable in some ways and not in others. Courses based on subjects dealing with constantly changing technology and trends aren't as useful in my eyes because colleges just can't seem to keep up. They are teaching you year old or older practices that are outdated buy the time you learn it. And depending on what part of the industry you are wanting to pursue the degree may not be as valuable as your knowledge or your portfolio (if it is filled with good stuff that is). Things that I found were valuable are subjects that are timeless, courses that teach the basics of design not the technology. Courses that teach color theory, value and contrast, space, and different techniques, Hell even art history is important in my opinion. This knowledge may not automatically make you a better designer, but it does allow you to understand design in a better way.
You would be surprised what other skills you pick up in college, but when it comes to the technology and the process, there is no better education then the hands on real world work environment in the field you are pursuing.
You would be surprised what other skills you pick up in college, but when it comes to the technology and the process, there is no better education then the hands on real world work environment in the field you are pursuing.
petepaz
New Member
wow!
i wouldn't even know what to look for other than good computer courses that teach you the ins and outs of the software you are going to use
when i went i just went to the county tech school and the cartoon and graphic art school in dover, NJ (only one of it's kind) but everything they taught us at that time was manual-paste ups, Ruby lith color separations a real life art board for each job big difference from what i do now
i wouldn't even know what to look for other than good computer courses that teach you the ins and outs of the software you are going to use
when i went i just went to the county tech school and the cartoon and graphic art school in dover, NJ (only one of it's kind) but everything they taught us at that time was manual-paste ups, Ruby lith color separations a real life art board for each job big difference from what i do now
GoodPeopleFlags
New Member
To me, the thing I got from graphic design classes was that it forced me to do things I wouldn't have otherwise done. I had never thought about doing a collage but it was fun and taught me to see things differently. Classes also forced me to think in different directions. For example, when everyone in the class had the same project to do, then to see what everyone else did. Alot of times I thought, "Why didn't *I* think of that!".
BTW - I didn't graduate, either. Making less than $15/hr. But happy!
BTW - I didn't graduate, either. Making less than $15/hr. But happy!
I'm not entirely sure why there aren't more courses like this around, but this is what I took two years ago in Edmonton, Alberta.
http://www.nait.ca/program_home_15376.htm
Although I grew up in a sign shop, I felt that it really did give me the tools I needed to succeed and get a good solid start in this industry. I've never regretted it. The course covered everything from the basics - including design software such as Flexi, Omega, Corel and Illustrator/Photoshop and gave you real experience in dealing with decaling vehicles, producing banners, working with wide format printers and all the other fun stuff. Best part was designing and producing a vehicle wrap we actually applied in class time.
http://www.nait.ca/program_home_15376.htm
Although I grew up in a sign shop, I felt that it really did give me the tools I needed to succeed and get a good solid start in this industry. I've never regretted it. The course covered everything from the basics - including design software such as Flexi, Omega, Corel and Illustrator/Photoshop and gave you real experience in dealing with decaling vehicles, producing banners, working with wide format printers and all the other fun stuff. Best part was designing and producing a vehicle wrap we actually applied in class time.