Graphtec FC 9000 marks for long cuts

[rydods]

Wondering if anyone has any insight into what type of registration marks to use for longer cuts. We recently purchased an FC 9000 Graphtec and it's seems to track off a little on it's cuts when we do longer runs with only 4 marks (1 each corner). I'd like to be more accurate and I see there are other options with additional marks down the sides, front and back. We print/cut through FlexiSign and Roland Versaworks we add the contour marks in prior to sending to versaworks.

 

[amw]

Wondering if anyone has any insight into what type of registration marks to use for longer cuts. We recently purchased an FC 9000 Graphtec and it's seems to track off a little on it's cuts when we do longer runs with only 4 marks (1 each corner). I'd like to be more accurate and I see there are other options with additional marks down the sides, front and back. We print/cut through FlexiSign and Roland Versaworks we add the contour marks in prior to sending to versaworks.

Yes, there are other Graphtec marks you can use. They can have marks going down the sides as well as the 4 corners. I want to say Graphtec segment area type 1 or 2 should be correct.

 

[rydods]

Thanks! We'll give it a shot.

 

[DieselPoweredNun]

We set our side marks at 8in intervals, we print/cut from corel and the options to do so are there.

With our 9000 we have to change the grip pressure of the media clamps for longer/heavier material to keep it straight though. Some slippery materials over 70 or so inches can get out of square otherwise.

 

[rydods]

Tried the graphtec segment type 1 marks yesterday. It checked all the marks then went back to the first mark and stopped. It didn't cut at all. Tried it several times until we just put it back to the standard type 1 (marks in the 4 corners) and it cut. Am I missing something?

 

[Geneva Olson]

I use flexi with my plotter. I have the registration marks set to every 12 inches on my print run. It cuts perfectly every time.

 

[DieselPoweredNun]

We use the Area Type 2 marks. If it fails for us, it's on the first or second mark and usually means we don't have a roller in the right spot or it's not in 'straight' enough.

 

[rydods]

I use flexi with my plotter. I have the registration marks set to every 12 inches on my print run. It cuts perfectly every time.

Do you also add the marks in flexi, print from versaworks, then cut with flexi or just print and cut through flexi?

 

[Geneva Olson]

Do you also add the marks in flexi, print from versaworks, then cut with flexi or just print and cut through flexi?

I use flexi for all of it.

 

[rydods]

I use Roland Printers and cannot seem to find decent profiles with flexi so I try to avoid printing in Flexi

 

[BigNate]

I use Onyx, so I am not entirely familiar with your setup, but we run the FC 9000 and I pretty much only use the segmented area correction - this is different than the multiple marks. If I start a job for segmented area correction, it will scan the first 4 marks across the sheet, then the next 2 marks that correspond to the end of the first segment (the first "side 'T" marks"), then it cuts the first segment, scans the next set of marks, makes a correction, cuts the second segment, and repeats until the end of the image.

What you described about it scanning all the marks first, this happens to me when I use the multiple marks option in Onyx - and it does not do a segment area correction. I think it adjusts for the entire image as if it is static, but when cutting the rollers can slip a little (very tiny slips here), making it necessary to correct while cutting. The segmented area correction correct every segment and has nice results.

Lastly, when our Graphtec scans marks correctly, but will not cut, it usually means something is too close to the image or to the edge of the sheet - by something I mean the rollers, or the head (well, image too close to the edge will place the head too close to the edge....) for some reason the Graphtec will not cut very close to the outside rollers' paths.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

BigNate, how long are the prints you're cutting using segment area correction?
There are 3 of us on this forum with the FC9000 running Onyx who are having accuracy issues.

I can't cut a job accurately over 4-5 feet using 18" segments. Oddly, the problem disappears using 4 corner marks only.

 

[BigNate]

I regularly cut 30' images (this is for posters, banners, stickers, etc, I just look to make an image between 300 and 400 inches long before hitting "print". I have been known to print an entire 160' roll (well, minus a little for the leader...) of 3" circle stickers as 1 image - I DO NOT recommend this, we ran into buffer memory errors on the Graphtec - had to cut in a few passes (delete last 2/3rd of cuts, sent file and cut 1st 1/3 of stickers, but leave media intact - then delete the 1st and 3rd 1/3 of the cuts, plot the middle area, then repeat with the last 1/3rd of cuts - REAL PITA when you run out of buffer)

the longest continuous cut I have made was 4, 3' x 150' banners - basically full rolls that we let the Graphtec cut - it had no problems. I recommend advancing the media so you see the entire image through the rollers and then go back to the home position before cutting, this will let you see how straight you loaded the media. play with speed too - too fast has a lot of acceleration and jerk (change in acceleration) both of these can cause the media to slip in the rollers, slow is better. (I get it set to where I can walk away and let it cut for a couple of hours unattended, then come back and package everything.)

 

[BigNate]

BigNate, how long are the prints you're cutting using segment area correction?
There are 3 of us on this forum with the FC9000 running Onyx who are having accuracy issues.

I can't cut a job accurately over 4-5 feet using 18" segments. Oddly, the problem disappears using 4 corner marks only.

if you can cut accurately with 4 marks, but not with segments, look at how the rollers are holding the media, and possible slow things down. You should be able to roll through 50 feet of media and back without seeing any lateral shift of the media (basically you should not be able to see any skew at all....)

Now, in the early days on this machine, I would plan that banners were a very slight trapezoid. It appears as though the average drag on the system from the cutting blade is biased to try to rotate the media, this would cause a small slip on the 12' banners, if I set the bleed to 0.1" the end of the cut would be just outside the bleed..... for a while we just gave a 0.5" bleed and let the trapezoids go out (who is really going to notice 1/8" over 12'?) But after playing with speed and the roller position (all 4 evenly spaced when possible and all at max pressure, 20 for speed.) I put in a sharp blade and cut scrim banners of any length without issue. (in my opinion, banners are the hardest to cut accurately, the adhesive vinyl and posters are a piece of cake compared to scrim! once you get it set, it is repeatable.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

The issue for me isn't skew left to right, it's front to back, so it's not really a tracking issue. After around 3 feet it's nearly 1/4" out of whack. Oddly, it resolves itself fully in the final segment.
Putting the exact same job through our FC8600 using segment correction behaves perfectly fine, leading me to think this is an FC9000 or Onyx 'feature'.

 

[BigNate]

The issue for me isn't skew left to right, it's front to back, so it's not really a tracking issue. After around 3 feet it's nearly 1/4" out of whack. Oddly, it resolves itself fully in the final segment.
Putting the exact same job through our FC8600 using segment correction behaves perfectly fine, leading me to think this is an FC9000 or Onyx 'feature'.

it sounds to me like you have a setting off so that the FC9000 is not actually correcting the internal map of your substrate (it doesn't actually do segment correction....) I am not familiar with this failure, but when we first got the device, it absolutely needed to be calibrated (more than what was done during install...) when I would cut 24"x36" posters, they were different dimensions if I cut them landscape versus portrait - once calibrated it no longer matters. I would push hard on your repair tech to fix the problem - if you bought a new machine, I assume it came with Onyx bundled and was installed. Push hard that one of the features you purchased does not work. (or research for yourself, I think there must be something in the calibration setting area.... the Onyx team is also very helpful, call them and see if they know the fix....)

 

[netsol]

I use Roland Printers and cannot seem to find decent profiles with flexi so I try to avoid printing in Flexi

the decent profiles will be the ones you make yourself

 

[rydods]

the decent profiles will be the ones you make yourself

I purchased a X-rite i1 Pro 3 over a year ago and planned to do this. I started and didn't finish the profile I was creating. It seemed a bit complicated but I'll get back at it.

 

[netsol]

a pain in the ass the first couple times, but, such a difference in the finish quality of your work

it's interesting, many of "us" don't recognize the need to "roll your own" if any of you also hang out on a photo printing site, (inkjetmall, for instance) EVERYONE on their makes their own profiles and frequently calibrates and tests the machine. very different view for a group that is not that different from us

if we only had to print on 3 types of substrate, i would almost see the point of canned profiles...

 

[ikarasu]

it sounds to me like you have a setting off so that the FC9000 is not actually correcting the internal map of your substrate (it doesn't actually do segment correction....) I am not familiar with this failure, but when we first got the device, it absolutely needed to be calibrated (more than what was done during install...) when I would cut 24"x36" posters, they were different dimensions if I cut them landscape versus portrait - once calibrated it no longer matters. I would push hard on your repair tech to fix the problem - if you bought a new machine, I assume it came with Onyx bundled and was installed. Push hard that one of the features you purchased does not work. (or research for yourself, I think there must be something in the calibration setting area.... the Onyx team is also very helpful, call them and see if they know the fix....)

Sadly its not an easy fix!

I'm one of the ones having issues with the FC9000 cutting off. Mine doesnt go off much... but its nowhere near as accurate as the 8600.

The first row will be fine, then it'll slightly shift - so small stickers are an issue... but anything big is ok / accurate enough, but it makes most 4" or under stickers look lopsided.

I've had techs out a half dozen times, they replaced a ton of parts, factory reset everything... but it still tends to "Drift". Even the graphtec techs were stumped - Then on the other 9000 I have access to, it'll cut the exact same file perfectly.... I've been dealing with it for months with many visits, we're on the verge of demanding a replacement cutter be sent in, everytime we do what the graphtec techs ask, they have more stuff for the rep to try - Grimco is getting pretty pissed because they have to come out once a week to do new suggestions from graphtec, and not one thing has made it any better....

Seems to be a batch of bad graphtecs out there or something. For 99% of the stuff I do it doesnt matter, but for smaller stickers... everything looks soooo lopsided and unacceptable. My problem unfortunatelly doesnt fix with 4 corners, so its a bit different than the others... It's like my wheels are pushing the material at an angle and it doesnt correct it properly. Even with 4 corners, first row is fine and then it slowly goes out more and more... I told them I'm close to buying a summa and throwing this on craigslist Ive had an 8000, still have a 8600, and 2 9000s... and only1 of the 9000s does this, the others are dead accurate