Grey Gradient on 3M

[cptcorn]

Yes, that's why it's important if you are working with a high end client for example in the cosmetic industry you go to their location and read the ambient light temperature (with your spectrophotometer) then you build your profile around that.

That's completely wrong though. When you profile on printed media, you're not measuring any ambient light. They will design those graphics as they want them to appear in those lighting conditions....

I can print PMS 180C on IJ180, 3951, etc and compare to a swatch and it's spot on. Now if I walk to an area with different lighting conditions, they will also all look the same still because the prints them selves are not changing.

So if they come to you, and say oh that color looks so far off from what I want. You can hold up your 180C swatch next to it, and it will be spot on. The problem comes from the designer, not the printer for not taking into consideration where things will be displayed.

 

[heyskull]

I don't know how everyone feels ab out this issue.
But I am a simple signmaker who over the last few years digital printing has become part of our business.
So why do we have to learn how to set up print profiles?
It is such an awful nightmare trying to set these up.
My job is making signs not programming and profiling for colour management.
I thought that it was the job of the people who make the RIP!!!!
In the early days I spent hours, days, even weeks of my life setting up profiles.
When I had just about cured a problem colour or fade it would cause another.
I now have a set of profiles that I have tweaked but I still can honestly say they are not perfect and are just good enough to do the job.
I like most people on this board are making do!
I don't care as their is no way I can match colours using 4 colours and this is what I say to customers.
If I spent time matching colours I would have no time to do the things that make me my living!
Our prints are a representation of the colours but are not a match and never will be.

SC

 

[eye4clr]

That's completely wrong though. When you profile on printed media, you're not measuring any ambient light. They will design those graphics as they want them to appear in those lighting conditions....

I can print PMS 180C on IJ180, 3951, etc and compare to a swatch and it's spot on. Now if I walk to an area with different lighting conditions, they will also all look the same still because the prints them selves are not changing.

So if they come to you, and say oh that color looks so far off from what I want. You can hold up your 180C swatch next to it, and it will be spot on. The problem comes from the designer, not the printer for not taking into consideration where things will be displayed.

You're 100% right. But the original theme of the post was color casted greys. Viewing condition plays a HUGE roll in this instance.

Hayskul - you don't have to profile....just don't complain when color isn't accurate. In theory the media manufacturers can make profiles for your system. In reality there are so many variables that skew the results, including all the upstream workflow and how your input profiles are setup that 'canned' profiles will only get you so far. In our profession there are lotst of things i don't like doing, but it all is a part of it.

 

[sjm]

That's completely wrong though. When you profile on printed media, you're not measuring any ambient light. They will design those graphics as they want them to appear in those lighting conditions....

I can print PMS 180C on IJ180, 3951, etc and compare to a swatch and it's spot on. Now if I walk to an area with different lighting conditions, they will also all look the same still because the prints them selves are not changing.

So if they come to you, and say oh that color looks so far off from what I want. You can hold up your 180C swatch next to it, and it will be spot on. The problem comes from the designer, not the printer for not taking into consideration where things will be displayed.

You're wrong, look up Metamerism.

Late edit: What profiling package are you using? ProfileMaker does that and more.

 

[heyskull]

Come on people.

I have given in complaining about colour matching as it is always an ish on a CMYK printer.
I now have good bright blue, reasonable burgundy, fantastic dark green and our shop vinyl pallete is closely matched.
I can print a grey fade but it works better on some of the higher pass settings.
This was all done using Wasatch RIP.

Prior to Wasatch we were using Signlabs RIP which I can personally say is awfull to setup as there are so many things you can change. It feels like you are constantly chasing your tail using Signlab.

SC

 

[sjm]

Come on people.

I have given in complaining about colour matching as it is always an ish on a CMYK printer.
I now have good bright blue, reasonable burgundy, fantastic dark green and our shop vinyl pallete is closely matched.
I can print a grey fade but it works better on some of the higher pass settings.
This was all done using Wasatch RIP.

Prior to Wasatch we were using Signlabs RIP which I can personally say is awfull to setup as there are so many things you can change. It feels like you are constantly chasing your tail using Signlab.

SC

Fair points but it is doable. The challenge is making it work and I think understanding the client's expectations is important too. We regularly take on projects that entail a variety of graphics from POP, Display, Fabric Backdrops, banners, decals etc for the same job. At the same time produced on a variety of inkjet technologies and are successful.

While I disagree with some of cptorn's statements he is correct fundementally.