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Gun threads

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CES020

New Member
And that solves exactly nothing.

If someone is shot with a bullet that had some DNA like marker in it, are they any less dead than they would be if shot with a bullet without that DNA marker?

If the special, traceable bullet was stolen from someone that legally bought it, and it was reported stolen, and the person is still dead, what freakin' difference does it make? Again, nothing more than trying to make someone feel better about it all. The end result is someone is still dead.

You haven't produced a single solution yet that gets to the root of the problem.
 

tsgstl

New Member
I can see if you were to challenge the cost of my idea. But to think it would not make a difference in unnecessary deaths makes you not worth my time to explain.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
I can see if you were to challenge the cost of my idea. But to think it would not make a difference in unnecessary deaths makes you not worth my time to explain.

Stricter gun laws will make a difference, just not so much the difference that y'all really think that it will. Outside the mentally disturbed, the underlying issues are elsewhere ( I would say mainly economic based being the true root of the issue, education, discipline etc being symptoms of an economic issue).

It really appears that the most PC "cause" to attack is the gun itself. An inanimate object that you don't have to worry about not voting for you at the next election cycle.
 

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
I have never owned a gun in my lifetime, but after carefully reading this thread, I plan to go buy several this weekend.

Just be sure to make wise choices in what you purchase, then do yourself another favor...
If you have never received professional training...get it. Know your firearms inside-out, upside-down and blindfolded. Store them safely. The only useful self protection arm is always within reach, so you will need a Concealed Carry permit. Treat your firearms like you do your parachute!
 

cajun312

New Member
And that solves exactly nothing.

If someone is shot with a bullet that had some DNA like marker in it, are they any less dead than they would be if shot with a bullet without that DNA marker?

If the special, traceable bullet was stolen from someone that legally bought it, and it was reported stolen, and the person is still dead, what freakin' difference does it make? Again, nothing more than trying to make someone feel better about it all. The end result is someone is still dead.

You haven't produced a single solution yet that gets to the root of the problem.

Simple, you commit a crime with a gun you get life in prison, if you kill someone with a gun, you go to the electric chair within a week, no long trials no appeals. It might take a few years but eventually you will run out of thugs who will think about using a gun.
 

Arlo Kalon 2.0

New Member
I was watching a show last night about the jails in Oakland county, CA and all the different gang bangers they house every night. It's surreal the effort they have to go to to segregate gang members who would readily kill other gang's people, and to decode the meaning of their tattoos. What was even more striking to me was the inmates overt displays of criminal mentality and their total identity as "bad guys" they display. These are the type of people who have to prey on law abiding citizens to fund their lifestyles. There wasn't one of them I saw I would want to encounter and the thought of them breaking into my home and terrorizing my family is all the motivation I need to own my 40cal Glock. In their jacked up frenzy they'd be in upon breaking into your home, you'd almost have to have a trained response mechanism embedded in your brain to be able to cope in the situation. It's for sure they'd get a few shots off at you before you could reach your gun if it wasn't already within reach. When I know I'm going to be in a bad part of town, I have it right on the seat beside me. After watching that display last night of subhuman predators, I think the Glock is going to be readily available in the living room from now on instead of in the night stand. The momentary shock and freezing up that would take place of someone kicking in my door would possibly be the seconds between life or death. Glad I watched that show and followed this thread. Also glad I live in a state where you can own any gun you want without jumping through hoops to get it. I could tell you at least half a dozen recent stories of law abiding gun owning citizens thwarting the carrying out of a criminal activity, some resulting in the justifiable deaths of the perpetrators. I believe everyone has a right to not become a victim, and I routinely run through visualized scenarios my cousin who is an FBI agent taught me to mentally program my responses to a threatening stimuli. It's one reason I am confident I could accomplish a well placed head shot if the need arose. It's like G. Gordon Liddy said, "make sure there is only one side of the story left to tell".
 

Mainframe

New Member
I was watching a show last night about the jails in Oakland county, CA and all the different gang bangers they house every night. It's surreal the effort they have to go to to segregate gang members who would readily kill other gang's people, and to decode the meaning of their tattoos. What was even more striking to me was the inmates overt displays of criminal mentality and their total identity as "bad guys" they display. These are the type of people who have to prey on law abiding citizens to fund their lifestyles. There wasn't one of them I saw I would want to encounter and the thought of them breaking into my home and terrorizing my family is all the motivation I need to own my 40cal Glock. In their jacked up frenzy they'd be in upon breaking into your home, you'd almost have to have a trained response mechanism embedded in your brain to be able to cope in the situation. It's for sure they'd get a few shots off at you before you could reach your gun if it wasn't already within reach. When I know I'm going to be in a bad part of town, I have it right on the seat beside me. After watching that display last night of subhuman predators, I think the Glock is going to be readily available in the living room from now on instead of in the night stand. The momentary shock and freezing up that would take place of someone kicking in my door would possibly be the seconds between life or death. Glad I watched that show and followed this thread. Also glad I live in a state where you can own any gun you want without jumping through hoops to get it. I could tell you at least half a dozen recent stories of law abiding gun owning citizens thwarting the carrying out of a criminal activity, some resulting in the justifiable deaths of the perpetrators. I believe everyone has a right to not become a victim, and I routinely run through visualized scenarios my cousin who is an FBI agent taught me to mentally program my responses to a threatening stimuli. It's one reason I am confident I could accomplish a well placed head shot if the need arose. It's like G. Gordon Liddy said, "make sure there is only one side of the story left to tell".

Good post!
 

CES020

New Member
I can see if you were to challenge the cost of my idea. But to think it would not make a difference in unnecessary deaths makes you not worth my time to explain.

And there we have it, folks, if you ask someone to explain how some of these imaginary solutions would actually change anything, you get told that you, as a person, are not worth the time to explain it to.

That's the root of this entire issue. Some are more than willing to close loopholes, while others use it as an opportunity to further their agenda.

You can't point to a single person on this thread that thinks Sandy Hook was anything other than a terrible, terrible thing, and that wishes it would never happen again. The difference is some people are willing to work on real solutions, and some are only willing to work on things that make people "feel" better about it all, while having no impact on the actual problem.

If I bought new, fancy bullets, that you have to register, and someone breaks into my home and steals them, how's that solved anything? The bad guy now has bullets, which he/she can use to commit a crime. Didn't solve ANYTHING.

Last time I checked, it was illegal to own a gun in Mexico. Anyone traveled to some of the towns in Mexico lately? Have you seen the news from those places? Yeah, those towns are a lot less violent than the U.....oh wait, sorry, that's not true.

How about getting the government of the USA to stop selling guns to drug cartels? How about that, that's a good place to start with gun control.
 

tsgstl

New Member
Ces, why would I respond to someone that ends there question with telling me I have produced nothing?

My idea was more of a idea that if we go after bullets then it won't effect the second amendment.
But.... I have said from the very first thread after SandyHook that it would take much more than gun control to fix that problem. Nobody or not enough to matter would do what needs to be done to fix that problem. A majority would rather not change things needed to change, this thread is perfect proof of that. Security in schools would push the matter somewhere else like a preschool. Unless we were to have a more policed state like Isreal we could never come close to even coming close to prevent something like that. Btw Isreal is like that not because of their own people. Truly sad that this is the solution we hear.

As far as traceable bullets cutting down on gun violence. Gun violence to me does not mean these random acts that even on a rise are still rare. To me it is more of a inner city problem. There are so many shooting deaths in St. Louis that they don't even report a majority of them anymore. The NRA doesn't care about this and some in this thread admitted they don't care. They don't even consider this because it doesn't effect you. The ones they do report on is usually a 5 year old kid that got cought in the crossfire. THIS HAS TO STOP. Now me a rational thinking person cares about the innocent lives lost in these cases. I am willing to come up with or try and come up with a solution. Is it magic bullets? Probably not. But the majority of gun advocates want to turn another cheek. Say that wont work we need more guns to protect us from these people.
They get these guns from us, you bring up "fast and furious" where exactly do you think these illegal guns are coming from in inner cities? It is not the Mexicans it is not Japan or China. No it's from the same people that want more guns. Lets say they are all stolen (which they aren't) they would be stolen from the same group that is wanting more. Better yet you have no plan or responsibility to do anything to change this. You don't even try and convince anyone it won't happen again, you just say give me more they took mine so I need to protect my family.

Traceable bullets would decrease ones shot illegally and put more responsibility on those who purchased them.
 

John Butto

New Member
Sandy Hook

This thread start partly because of the violence of taking the away the lives of innocent children. A large group of people blame it on guns and want to curb them. The other part is against. I get that, but what about the shooter. Smart kid, from divorced parents, father pays mother $250,000 a year in alimony. She is a gun enthusiast, thank god she did not have an affection for WMD. Takes the kid to the gun range for some quality time together. He is at the age when they say the brain starts to develop into manhood and could go to the problem sides, such as bipolar, schizophrenia and other big words that doctors like to use. Mother is starting to have trouble handling him and decides for some reason, probably because she is self centered and lazy, that she will put him under police custody and have him committed. She has probably, I use that word probably, for the reader because I do not know all the facts, already has gone to see a doctor and has prescribe medication of some sort. Well the mother takes a vacation for a week and leaves him alone and when she comes back tells him her plans. He is mad beyond belief, he wants vengeance on her and anyone that has given her the time of day. He does what his mother has taught him to do. You know the rest, he shoots her and others.
My point being, go after the drug companies, doctors, lawyers, Congress who pass bills to eliminate hospitals that use to take care of this problem, half way houses, anyone connected to this insanity. There is way more money being made by the drug companies that selling guns to our citizens.
 

signage

New Member
tsgstl all that needs to be done is for our government to enforce the laws they already have. If you would look up the laws and what they say you would know that these repeat offenders would not be out walking the streets. Out own justice system put these wack jobs back out to do it again and again. And because of this they know the consequences are that severe.

Your idea of these bullets would do nothing! Do you have any idea of what it would take to cast your own bullets? If they can make meth they could make their own bullets!

This thread start partly because of the violence of taking the away the lives of innocent children. A large group of people blame it on guns and want to curb them. The other part is against. I get that, but what about the shooter. Smart kid, from divorced parents, father pays mother $250,000 a year in alimony. She is a gun enthusiast, thank god she did not have an affection for WMD. Takes the kid to the gun range for some quality time together. He is at the age when they say the brain starts to develop into manhood and could go to the problem sides, such as bipolar, schizophrenia and other big words that doctors like to use. Mother is starting to have trouble handling him and decides for some reason, probably because she is self centered and lazy, that she will put him under police custody and have him committed. She has probably, I use that word probably, for the reader because I do not know all the facts, already has gone to see a doctor and has prescribe medication of some sort. Well the mother takes a vacation for a week and leaves him alone and when she comes back tells him her plans. He is mad beyond belief, he wants vengeance on her and anyone that has given her the time of day. He does what his mother has taught him to do. You know the rest, he shoots her and others.

My point being, go after the drug companies, doctors, lawyers, Congress who pass bills to eliminate hospitals that use to take care of this problem, half way houses, anyone connected to this insanity. There is way more money being made by the drug companies that selling guns to our citizens.

:goodpost::thumb:
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Traceable bullets would decrease ones shot illegally and put more responsibility on those who purchased them.

I would like to believe that, but I don't. The problem area (inner city) that you mention is more of economic, pop culture, general education etc issue that gets a good portion of them to go to illegal behavior. If they are already prone to illegal behavior, what makes you think that they aren't going to do illegal behavior to supply their gun needs as well? There will be a black market for this type of stuff, where there is a demand, there will be a supplier.

If they are doing illegal behavior, they are going to steal those "tracer bullets" from someone else and guess what, the legal owners of those bullets are going to be the ones that get into trouble, not your criminals (and you know some criminals put a lot of time and effort into the execution of their crime, which amazes me given if they would just get a regular job). Given that fear factor that law abiding people will have they'll cut down on their owning guns. Now your are probably thinking that that will cut down on the criminals supply. They will just get it from somewhere else or they will make their own. I know gun enthusiasts that make their own rounds, so do we now put regulations on the individual components as well?


Signage touched on another area and that is the lax sentences that some violent offenders can get through deal making. I would say none of that if there was specifically a gun involved in an act of criminal behavior (self defense etc are excluded), but maybe apply that to anything else that was brandished as a weapon.

There are multiple levels to this and I'm not saying that that you didn't say there weren't, in fact, I think you specifically mentioned that in this thread, however, I do believe that it needs to be approached very differently then what is the easiest way to do so.
 

tsgstl

New Member
John, you are right on a lot of things although I don't think she was self centered or lazy. And I don't think it was a pharmaceutical problem. From what I have seen she did all she could legally to help this child. The fact that until someone commits a violent act before the next step is legal is a huge problem. You have to wait til something like this happens before anything can be done. It was obviously to late. But once again this turns into a human rights debate that few want to address and blame government being to powerful and controlling. It's a vicious cycle.

Signage, my bullet theory was more tongue and cheek on the hypocrisy of the gun laws. Although in a perfect world it would work. But price and illegal importing would wash out the entire idea much like drugs.
 

John Butto

New Member
Tsgsti: Believe me when I tell you that I know this problem first hand. Parents who either split up or one dies and is left with a child, that parent really cannot cope with the child and that person commits a crime, is in my estimation self centered and lazy. There are more parents who take care of their kids and do a wonderful job with troubled children but they have to give up a lot of themselves. I hit the nail on the head when I talk of that mother whose monster son did this vicious crime. It all starts in the home. That is why I carry a gun to protect me from these boogymen because the government has to many "bleeding hearts".
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
...My idea was more of a idea that if we go after bullets then it won't effect the second amendment....

That would be an example of tortured reasoning. It's certain that you might garner support for this argument among those who desperately want to shut down the second amendment** but it's doubtful that a reasonable court would concur.

It could be argued that 'arms' means exactly that, arms. Is someone packing an unloaded gun bearing arms? Could they be considered to be armed?

If not, then a loaded weapon must be necessary, and it would seem also sufficient, to bearing arms. To being armed.

If so, that someone with an unloaded gun would be considered armed, then this would represent stretching the fabric of the language beyond breaking point. More tortured reasoning.

**apropos of nothing, many many years ago I was a modest contributor to the ACLU. At the time I figured that they were pretty much all that was between me and the forces of darkness and worse, mindlessness.

As time passes the ACLU became far more politically correct than I thought healthy for such an organization. My contributions ceased. Which prompted a veritable tsunami of letters begging for more money.

I finally wrote them back stating that they seem to have evolved into an organization that sought to expand the first amendment until it included any conceivable act, nothing wrong with that, and at the same time contract the second amendment until it was nothing at all.

A told the that on the day that they defended the second amendment with the same zeal that they defend the first I might consider a contribution.They replied that they felt that the second amendment was defended by the NRA thus they could wash their hands of it. I replied that if that is the case then why do they treat the NRA as an embarrassment to the human race rather than as fellow travelers? To this they had no response.
 

cajun312

New Member
This happened yesterday, thank God this woman had a gun and knew how to use it.

By Christian Boone
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The Loganville mother of two assumed the knocks on her front door Friday afternoon were from a solicitor.
“Don’t answer,” she yelled to her 9-year-old twins playing downstairs.
When the visitor began repeatedly ringing the doorbell, she called her husband at work.

“Get the kids and hide,” he told his wife.
As he dialed 911, his 37-year-old spouse, who works from home, collected the children and hid with them in a crawlspace adjoining her office. By that time, the intruder had forced his way into the three-story residence on Henderson Ridge Drive with a crowbar, authorities said. He allegedly rummaged through the home, eventually working his way up to the attic office.

“He opens the closet door and finds himself staring down the barrel of a .38 revolver,” said Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman, who relayed the woman’s narrative to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. He asked that her name be withheld.

The woman fired six bullets, five of which hit Paul Ali Slater in the face and neck area, Chapman said. But Slater was still conscious.
“The guy’s face down, crying,” the sheriff said. The woman told him to stay down or she’d shoot again.

Slater, unaware that she had emptied her chamber, obliged as the mother and her children ran to a neighbor’s house.
The injured burglar eventually made it out of the home and into his car, driving away before deputies arrived on the scene. He didn’t get far.
“When you got five bullets in you, it makes you kind of disoriented,” Chapman told the AJC.

Deputies found Slater bleeding profusely in a neighbor’s driveway.
“I’m dying. Help me,” he told them, according to Chapman.
Slater was transported to Gwinnett Medical Center and is expected to survive, the sheriff said.

The Long Island native, who now lives in Gwinnett County, was released from the Gwinnett jail in late August after serving six months for simple battery and three counts of probation violation. Slater has six other arrests in Gwinnett dating back to 2008, according to jail records.

“My wife’s a hero,” the woman’s husband, Donnie Herman, told Channel 2 Action News in a brief statement. He did not respond to a request for comment from the AJC. “She protected her kids. She did what she was supposed to do.”

Chapman remarked that one of his deputies, impressed with the woman’s resolve, told the sheriff she had handled her first shooting better than he had.
“That mother’s instinct kicked in,” Chapman said. “You go after a mother’s kids and she’ll find herself capable of doing things she never thought she was capable of.”
 

tsgstl

New Member
Tsgsti: Believe me when I tell you that I know this problem first hand. Parents who either split up or one dies and is left with a child, that parent really cannot cope with the child and that person commits a crime, is in my estimation self centered and lazy. There are more parents who take care of their kids and do a wonderful job with troubled children but they have to give up a lot of themselves. I hit the nail on the head when I talk of that mother whose monster son did this vicious crime. It all starts in the home. That is why I carry a gun to protect me from these boogymen because the government has to many "bleeding hearts".

You first say you do not know all the facts of this woman and then you tell me to believe you? Which is it?
She could very well be what you say, from what I have seen she wasn't. You are right though if anyone was to blame she deserves just as much if not more than anyone else. She was obviously careless with her firearms and this is the cause to why those children died. If she wasn't dead she should face jail time for her weapons killing others.
 
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