Hate to knit-pick but......

[Jillbeans]

What about when you are hand-painting a sign using your own tried and true knock-out alphabet and some nimrod comes up and asks what "font" you are using? Huh?
I used to be all diva-like about typeface and letterstyle but I don't care anymore as long as I get paid. Rodi is right, it doesn't matter.
And if you start calling it "Typeface" on the "What is it" section you will only further confuse newbies.
Love....Jill

 

[Rodi]

I think that once a 72 points equaled an inch, it was over. Leading (or ledding) really has no place in digital composition, it is more truly line spacing.

I agree on a historical and factual content of the misuse of fonts and typefaces, but only because it is bad to lose such a colorful history that the graphic arts have.
Logically, Shovel, the "Founderies" of type do not even make different size masters… they haven't since hot metal days, so does it really matter? I think informing young designers and graphic artists about the history of why things are the way they are and for them to really grasp it is more important. I talk to people under the age of 40 and the vast majority do not even realize that just previous to their arrival on the design spectrum that there were mechanical boards, stats, font specification, etc etc. They do not know that there was a great group of designers who did 2 color work and it was far better than what these neophytes ever design, because designers used to solve problems, not create them.

Do I sound old now? hahahahaha

 

[bob]

I think that once a 72 points equaled an inch, it was over. Leading (or ledding) really has no place in digital composition, it is more truly line spacing.

I agree on a historical and factual content of the misuse of fonts and typefaces, but only because it is bad to lose such a colorful history that the graphic arts have.
Logically, Shovel, the "Founderies" of type do not even make different size masters… they haven't since hot metal days, so does it really matter?...

It's more than just nostalgia. All of the rules of typography have their roots in metal type and the concept of a type body. The rules, guidelines actually but break them at your own peril, evolved as movable type evolved and, for the most part, exist because of the inherent physical limitations of hard type. The most telling of these is that two things cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

With digital type you can throw the rules to the wind but you still need to know them and have a real good reason for violating them. This will no doubt evoke howls of outraged protest by those who continually demonstrate that they don't know any better.

It's like Janis Joplin and Pablo Picasso. Both revered in their own circles. The difference is that the Joplin bint produced the undisciplined sound for which she became famous because that's the only thing she knew and could do. On the other hand Pablo painted ladies with their eyes on one side of their heads because he chose to, he was an accomplished illustrator and draftsman. Pablo knew what he was about, Joplin never had a clue and spent her brief career getting away with it. The point being that you have to know and, hopefully, understand the rules before you can break them. Otherwise you're merely getting away with it.

 

[Rodi]

Bob,
I am not saying that good sense and good design are part of nostalgia, quite the opposite. But when a point gets rounded off so that 72 = 1 inch, the point, as a valid indicator, no longer has the validity it once did. So, if I say 3 picas and someone now says half inch, it is exactly the same, and by shear volume of usage and common knowledge the half inch wins and the 3 picas becomes not onlyiirrelevant, but tiresome because it is just so redundant and no longer needed!

I totally agree with your last paragraph. Spot on.

 

[Gino]

Gives a new meaning to 'Cut 'N Paste', too.

Remember cutting things out of your slicks and then pasting them up for your ads ?? How about having your type set up on paper and then going in and re-touching with your speedball. What nib was used for double slit for its generous ink supply vs. fine to broad tips for nice manuscript writing ?? These words have new meaning too and I'll bet many here, especially the newbies have no idea of what this stuff is about. Like Rodi mentioned.... today's people have no idea from where the roots of this industry originated, but they are capable of picking up the ball and running blindly with it. We've carved the way and have made it so easy for future sign people.

 

[gnatt66]

i like that analogy, Bob. I still find it odd that accomplished artists are revered for how much they can "do" with such minimal effort. It's like once it's proven they "can", they aren't held to any sort of standard anymore.

Ever see a picasso sketch book? I have..lots of short-work exercises and not a lot of complete thoughts, that's for sure. (but three strokes of graphite and its valueable...meh)

 

[Rodi]

There is always the issue, and it should not be forgotten of production… and then commodity pricing. That is precisely what has happened in print and the rest of the graphic arts will follow. The more difficult, labor intensive aspects are the last to follow, but eventually they all do, and that is by attrition (far less sign painting, for instance) or replacement (super duper vinyl cutter, dummies like rodi who cannot draw a letter can achieve and surpass what people have spent their entire lives doing, PROGRESS!), and progress (full color printing right from your shop, with white, the ability to match spot colors!) Some is really wonderful, some is just scary! The market as arbiter is fascinating but lookout!

 

[Billct2]

....of course the rules of typesetting never did apply to sign painting anyhow.
Sign painters could put a letter in any (customized) relation to another that they chose,
and customize the letter itself to create "harmony".

 

[Bigdawg]

I cut my teeth in a typesetting shop... and I totally agree with bob that you need a good reason to break those "old" rules...

and I don't see many that are good reasons... "to make it fit" is certainly not one of them.