Healthcare

[AF]

Health care is what you get at a hospital or doctor office.
Health insurance is what you pay for to reduce and even cover health care costs.
ACA is a tax to fund socialist Medicare and has the most expensive premiums and out-of-pocket-max by a factor of 3 to 10 over open market health insurance.
Medicare is not health care and is not health insurance. It is tax-funded “socialized medicine”.
Death panels are only found in socialist health systems.
Obamacare is an oxymoron.
The author of the ACA said the ACA is a tax and said Americans are stupid. You think this guy was looking out for your best interest?

The reality is that our old system was not cheap but was cheaper than ACA. Our old system allowed for talented but greedy doctors to come to America and make a fortune. The old system appealed to greed to attract talent. Plenty of terrible doctors, but some exceptional ones as well who otherwise may have gone elsewhere to practice. Take the carrot away with socialist medicine and lose the talented doctors and surgeons.

 

[TimToad]

I would trust God fearing Christians over communists / marxists / socialists any day of the week.

People who have the moral obligation to do the right thing as compared to being forced to through regulation. When forced by regulation, then the minimum is what you get if that.

Of course you do. We all know that there has NEVER been a Christian in history who has scammed another person, committed sexual assault on women, molested children, committed adultery, violated the public trust, etc...

 

[Gino]

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[Texas_Signmaker]

Don't be naive to think that people don't use the "Christian" cloak to mask their evil intentions.

During some training classes that my church required me to take in order to work with children (along with being background checked) they taught us that predators join church because they feel it's the easiest target. I doubt it's a "Christian turned bad" type of person..but rather a "Bad pretending to be Christian"

 

[GAC05]

Anyone get a good rate on Mental Healthcare they might be willing to pass on to a few of us here?

 

[AF]

Of course you do. We all know that there has NEVER been a Christian in history who has scammed another person, committed sexual assault on women, molested children, committed adultery, violated the public trust, etc...

You are the unfortunate victim of a very well organized brainwashing effort. Your beloved communists / socialists / marxists are the most murderous and hateful group to walk the earth in human history. Nothing compares. Their propaganda efforts are unmatched - you now believe they are the good guys. Party before country, before family, before self. Disarm the populace. You wouldn’t let the enemy have a gun, so why would you let him have ideas?

1a and 2a are here to protect you from this evil. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, right to bear arms. Think about the communist push to take guns, eliminate free speech, eliminate Christianity. They already eliminated the free press, now every news outlet spews the same catchphrase at the same time as determined by focus groups to get you riled up. Jargon committees go way back. Trump said America will never be a socialist country, does that fire you up? Time to come back down to Earth, use your brain and help others come out from under the ether.

 

[TimToad]

Health care is what you get at a hospital or doctor office.
Health insurance is what you pay for to reduce and even cover health care costs.
ACA is a tax to fund socialist Medicare and has the most expensive premiums and out-of-pocket-max by a factor of 3 to 10 over open market health insurance.
Medicare is not health care and is not health insurance. It is tax-funded “socialized medicine”.
Death panels are only found in socialist health systems.
Obamacare is an oxymoron.
The author of the ACA said the ACA is a tax and said Americans are stupid. You think this guy was looking out for your best interest?

The reality is that our old system was not cheap but was cheaper than ACA. Our old system allowed for talented but greedy doctors to come to America and make a fortune. The old system appealed to greed to attract talent. Plenty of terrible doctors, but some exceptional ones as well who otherwise may have gone elsewhere to practice. Take the carrot away with socialist medicine and lose the talented doctors and surgeons.

Working with facts, actual statistical data and real world evidence is something that really helps one's credibility on important issues.

Your post is riddled with personal PERCEPTIONS which are not any of the above and it would behoove you to get informed on said facts and evidence so you can utilize the very programs your tax dollars pay for and you most likely WILL use some day in some form or another.

You're playing a game of semantics with yourself based on your ideological beliefs and a psychological defense mechanism called confirmation bias, yet you will likely and GLADLY accept the "healthcare" that Medicare most assuredly IS once you qualify. Or you'll bankrupt yourself and your family and suffer from illness to illness until you or someone you love dies prematurely. Very few of us commoners have the kind of savings and financial resources to pay for life saving healthcare that can run into the millions by the time one succumbs and dies. Are you not reading some of these posts detailing just how much serious illness costs?

50% of all Americans diagnosed with ANY form of cancer will deplete ALL of their life savings even if they have insurance. Wrap your head around that one.

Medicare didn't just start withholding taxes from people's checks in 2010 after the passage of the ACA. FICA taxes have been collected from W2ed employees and self-employed people whose show a profit since 1935 upon the inception of Social Security, the world's greatest anti-poverty safety net program in history. It operates at a 2-3% administrative cost and has literally saved millions and millions of our fellow Americans from lives of poverty after suffering from disabilities and or financial devastation. Yes, that is not a typo. 1935. Medicare began in 1965.

I can't tell if you are old enough to remember or curious enough to read history books, but at one time in America, the very capitalist forces you worship had created a system so tilted in their favor that the elderly were literally dying of starvation and lack of adequate healthcare. That system with its lack of oversight and financial regulation triggered the Great Depression where 25-35% unemployment took hold for 10 YEARS.

Can you imagine the devastation and instability that created?

Medicare has the exact same administrative structure as a private insurance company and pays providers, accepts or denies claims, etc. just like an insurer, but it does it all under one roof and operates on a 2-3% cost while private, for profit insurers make anywhere from 20-50% PROFIT off your premiums.

Cherry picking carefully crafted talking points forced upon the public by those with a financial interest in keeping the system the way it is doesn't make them true.

Show us the evidence of these dreaded "death panels".

Show us where the health care insurance industry and its profit motivation has our best interests at heart.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Wow, some of ya'll should be bureaucrats or in a think tank instead of sign people

 

[TimToad]

You are the unfortunate victim of a very well organized brainwashing effort. Your beloved communists / socialists / marxists are the most murderous and hateful group to walk the earth in human history. Nothing compares. Their propaganda efforts are unmatched - you now believe they are the good guys. Party before country, before family, before self. Disarm the populace. You wouldn’t let the enemy have a gun, so why would you let him have ideas?

1a and 2a are here to protect you from this evil. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, right to bear arms. Think about the communist push to take guns, eliminate free speech, eliminate Christianity. They already eliminated the free press, now every news outlet spews the same catchphrase at the same time as determined by focus groups to get you riled up. Jargon committees go way back. Trump said America will never be a socialist country, does that fire you up? Time to come back down to Earth, use your brain and help others come out from under the ether.

Where does one come up with this stuff? The bomb shelter in the backyard getting too crowded?

Stick to the subject at hand and spare us the John Birch Society rhetoric. If anybody wanted your guns, you'd have no chance of stopping them against the most lethal fighting force in world history.

You were promised the "bestest, cheapest healthcare" over three years ago and that it would be available in less than 100 days if elected. Well, your new messiah has been in for over 800 days and still no sign of it.

People are literally killing themselves in record numbers and putting themselves at great physical risk due to the broken promises and system you fell for thanks to clinging to some paranoid Cold War indoctrination.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...zUhTdE3lx4NuoB01SOHwJY9jkDVb5E0A5nIcm50FRlJIs

 

[dypinc]

Of course you do. We all know that there has NEVER been a Christian in history who has scammed another person, committed sexual assault on women, molested children, committed adultery, violated the public trust, etc...

I would not call Christianity a crime against humanity like socialism is.

 

[dypinc]

the very capitalist forces you worship had created a system so tilted in their favor that the elderly were literally dying of starvation and lack of adequate healthcare.

I did not know Venezuela was capitalist.

 

[TimToad]

I would not call Christianity a crime against humanity like socialism is.

Go ask any of the millions of children preyed upon and molested by clergy if what was done to them wasn't a crime against humanity. Or the various indigenous peoples around the world INCLUDING in the U.S. how they perceive the treatment they have received from both Christians AND unrestrained capitalism.

Then when you're done with that go to Norway, Finland, Sweden, France, Denmark, Germany, etc. and ask them about great life is and how RIDICULOUSLY uninformed the average American is about the very definition of "socialism" and the vast differences between it as practiced in those countries and the Cold War indoctrinated perceptions of what it is.

 

[equippaint]

There is no pure form of government in the world including in the USA. Why does every debate always stray away and turn into this nonsense? Way too many people are ruled by their politics where every thought, argument, person etc, pretty much everything in life has some sort of political component to it. Its so tiring and worse than listening to the holy rollers.

 

[rossmosh]

It continues to amaze me how people do not live in reality.

1. The ACA was a compromise piece of legislation that attempted to allow private insurance to continue to exist in it's current form while using government funds to help insure those that found health insurance not affordable. Did it work? Yes and no. Some peoples lives improved and others got worse. What I can say is in Massachusetts, they used a very similar program before it was a federal program, and people really thought it was great. The reason it was a success was people wanted to make it a success. The ACA has struggled for support from its inception and as a result has never gotten a truly fair shake.

2. Regardless of your beliefs, there are things in this world called facts, statistics, and professional opinions. Simply put, the countries with socialized medical care or whatever you want to call it, do a better job keeping their citizens healthy. Not only this, it costs less money overall. Is it a tax? Yep. Is it also a cost savings? Yep.

If you pay $1000/mo for health insurance right now and I say "Cancel your insurance and I'll provide you better coverage for $700/mo" you'll turn me down simply because I'm the government? You're saving $300/mo AND getting better coverage. What's the issue?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

It continues to amaze me how people do not live in reality.

1. The ACA was a compromise piece of legislation that attempted to allow private insurance to continue to exist in it's current form while using government funds to help insure those that found health insurance not affordable. Did it work? Yes and no. Some peoples lives improved and others got worse. What I can say is in Massachusetts, they used a very similar program before it was a federal program, and people really thought it was great. The reason it was a success was people wanted to make it a success. The ACA has struggled for support from its inception and as a result has never gotten a truly fair shake.

2. Regardless of your beliefs, there are things in this world called facts, statistics, and professional opinions. Simply put, the countries with socialized medical care or whatever you want to call it, do a better job keeping their citizens healthy. Not only this, it costs less money overall. Is it a tax? Yep. Is it also a cost savings? Yep.

If you pay $1000/mo for health insurance right now and I say "Cancel your insurance and I'll provide you better coverage for $700/mo" you'll turn me down simply because I'm the government? You're saving $300/mo AND getting better coverage. What's the issue?

I signed up for ACA when it came out and it helped me and my family a ton. The coverage over the years as gone down and the price has gone up, but I still buy it.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

This is awesome! Much better than talking heads on political channels.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

This is awesome! Much better than talking heads on political channels.

I agree, at least you get everyone's view...and not just 5 on 1 in a 4 minute segment.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Who would have thought World War 3 would be so civil and only fought by 1 country over something so trivial as healthcare.

 

[Gino]

Hey tex.......... I have a novel idea. Why don't you figure out another thread we could all tune in to and have still more stimulating conversation for this week ?? We could put you in charge of creating threads to pass the printing time quickly.

 

[dypinc]

Then when you're done with that go to Norway, Finland, Sweden, France, Denmark, Germany, etc. and ask them about great life is and how RIDICULOUSLY uninformed the average American is about the very definition of "socialism" and the vast differences between it as practiced in those countries and the Cold War indoctrinated perceptions of what it is.

Why are you defining Norway, Finland, Sweden, France, Denmark, Germany, etc. as Socialists.

Do they have Economic Freedom?

Do they have Individual Liberty?

Do the governments control the means of Production?