Help in Outfitting New Graphics Department

[jochwat]

Hello everyone!

I am currently in the position of helping a growing company implement an in-house graphics operation. They have always outsourced their printing and are now wanting to do it all under one roof.

Personally, I've been involved in most aspects of graphics / printing for the past couple of decades (design, prepress, variable data, marketing, running smaller roll machines, etc.), and have a decent grasp on the business as a whole, but have never had to be the person to choose equipment of this type to set up a shop. I'd also like to get some recommendations of vendors for this equipment, preferably in the Midwest area. I'm hoping this is a good place to ask for some assistance!

That said, here's where we are at the moment. It'll be a graphic shop mainly for its own internal client, so we would mostly be printing our own work. Not a huge, busy shop bringing in tons of work, but we'll be printing daily. We'd want to print on rigid materials (acrylic, foamcore, PVC, etc.), as well as occasional objects (USB drives, cases, etc.), as well as roll materials. We'd need to contour cut vinyl, and would also like to contour cut the rigid substrates at times (e.g. dimensional lettering, standees). So, having said all this, we're needing an equipment setup like this: printer(s) that can do white ink, print on rigid and roll, has a decent height margin for objects, can cut to shape on roll/thin materials as well as rigid substrates.

An example configuration I've come up with for the main hardware is:

[FONT=&quot]Roland VersaUV LEJ-640FT UV Flatbed Printer (for rigid and objects)
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Roland TrueVIS VG (54") Printer / Cutter with Media Take-Up Unit (for roll and contour vinyl cutting)
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Flatbed Contour Cutter / Router (not sure where to even start here)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You can get an idea of budget from what I've listed above. We'd also have to get all of the ancillary equipment as well (material stands, workstation, rip machines, etc.), but that can come later with a specific vendor.

As far as the vendor goes, I'd also need someone who can offer all of the installation and training necessary for this equipment, and support for getting them running well, help with a color matching system, etc. etc. We're not in a position to just have the stuff dumped on us and wished the best of luck.

So... given this information, what do you experienced, educated sign industry folks think? What kind of equipment do you recommend for this endeavor, and what's the best place we can get it?

Thanks so much for your help!

-Joe
[/FONT]

 

[Gino]

Wow, nice guy. how many local sign shops in your immediate area are ya screwing outta work ??

You even want us to figure out your budget and give every possible iota of information to you, cause you can't face the locals to ask them. Why not ?? Cause they'll just punch ya in the face.

Sorry, but you're not the type of setup I'm willing to help. Bringing it all in-house is a good idea, but why not hire someone to do this set up for you, that really does know what they're doing....... rather than steal from the very people you are already stealing from ??

Good luck, you'll need it.​

 

[jochwat]

Thanks, Gino, for your immeasurable assistance and kind words!

Now let's hear from the non-Neanderthals.

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

Thanks, Gino, for your immeasurable assistance and kind words!

Now let's hear from the non-Neanderthals.

Wow, you come into a sign forum, asking for help from people that they do this as a living, trying to put food on the table, and a roof over their heads, and when the first post doesn't bow down and give you all the information you think you need, you resort to name calling...

Granted, Gino can be a bit gruff, but he is one of the oldest, and probably one of the most most successful shop owners on this forum.

Gino is right. You want to undercut your current suppliers, get it cheaper, and thus hurt your local market... good luck with your endeavor...

 

[brycesteiner]

It would be nice if making signs and applying vinyl was as easy as hitting print, but then where would the skill be? These guys who have been doing it for years have an amazing craft, and even though the new equipment/vinyl has made it easier for noobs, it has expanded what they can do even more.

Getting new equipment is always a big endeavor, especially because it looks like you want to start completely from the ground up and create a do-everything shop.

If you get all the equipment and don't know how to run any of it, You or the owner would be in a world of hurt when you leave because of the stress, or the owner fires you because sales (or workers can't run them) isn't paying for the machines.

This plan may be very difficult since it doesn't sound like there is anyone experience with doing this. I would think hiring someone who has done this for a while may be the best. Then start with a wide-format printer such as a Mutoh or Roland just to get your feet wet before jumping in and drowning. At the same time continue outsourcing until you have reached the point where the transition and experience is all in place.

 

[jochwat]

Getting new equipment is always a big endeavor, especially because it looks like you want to start completely from the ground up and create a do-everything shop.

Bryce, yes, it's a HUGE endeavor. It makes my head swim going back and forth between all of the options and reviews. And yes, the graphics shop itself would be new. But the company is not new, and the people staffing the new graphics shop are not new. My help with this is in choosing the right stuff and having slim to no regret over the choice later. But the graphics experience is NOT new. I started doing this stuff in the late 1980s, but up until now I've mainly been a user / operator of the gear. It was already there when I'd go to work and I'd learn to use it. The whole idea of outfitting a place with everything, at this level, IS new to me, to a point. I can made very educated guesses and know my stuff up to a point, but then just want to confirm or bolster what I know with more input from some professionals. So I came here and asked.

Had this graphics shop already existed, and I came here asking for input on adding a new machine, would the response have been the same? I don't think so. But what's the difference?

The website is Signs101, the very idea being that it's a place to come to learn what there is to know about the sign making industry, and at a beginning level if that's where you are. Is this true or not? Can't someone come here and ask Signs101 questions without being already covered in ink? Everyone starts somewhere. I started in 1988 with a Commodore Amiga and a desktop inkjet printer. Now I need to buy a UV flatbed printer and all that goes with it, and I'm a little uneasy with jumping in on a big purchase and would love some guidance. Didn't think that was too much to ask of such a website. Seriously don't want to keep having to justify myself for it, though.

Thanks to anyone who might want to lend a hand.

 

[rossmosh]

Business is business and if you guys want to open up your own print shop, that's a business decision. What people forget about when they bring stuff in house is they're essentially running a completely different business within their own business. In this case, it doesn't sound like the two businesses are closely related. Also, what a lot of people do is they open up these in house operations, the key employee quits, leaves, gets fired, or dies and then the whole operation gets scrapped. That's assuming they every get it to work. A lot of these in house operations end up failing within a year or two just like many small businesses.

So basically the process has to be like any other new business. Figure out what you actually want. What you can justify spending. What's the priority. What you can realistically do with your skill sets and then move forward.

Right now, you seem to want to run two entirely different businesses. One is a sign/print shop and the other is printing for promo items. The sign/print shop requires printers, laminators, saws, plotters, and various other tools and dealing typically with local distributors. Promo items requires finding a direct contact in China and shipping in the stuff and either pad printing, silk screening, UV printing, or laser engraving each item. Which you buy is dependent on what you plan on doing and at the end of the day.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Bryce, yes, it's a HUGE endeavor. It makes my head swim going back and forth between all of the options and reviews. And yes, the graphics shop itself would be new. But the company is not new, and the people staffing the new graphics shop are not new. My help with this is in choosing the right stuff and having slim to no regret over the choice later. But the graphics experience is NOT new. I started doing this stuff in the late 1980s, but up until now I've mainly been a user / operator of the gear. It was already there when I'd go to work and I'd learn to use it. The whole idea of outfitting a place with everything, at this level, IS new to me, to a point. I can made very educated guesses and know my stuff up to a point, but then just want to confirm or bolster what I know with more input from some professionals. So I came here and asked.

Had this graphics shop already existed, and I came here asking for input on adding a new machine, would the response have been the same? I don't think so. But what's the difference?

The website is Signs101, the very idea being that it's a place to come to learn what there is to know about the sign making industry, and at a beginning level if that's where you are. Is this true or not? Can't someone come here and ask Signs101 questions without being already covered in ink? Everyone starts somewhere. I started in 1988 with a Commodore Amiga and a desktop inkjet printer. Now I need to buy a UV flatbed printer and all that goes with it, and I'm a little uneasy with jumping in on a big purchase and would love some guidance. Didn't think that was too much to ask of such a website. Seriously don't want to keep having to justify myself for it, though.

Thanks to anyone who might want to lend a hand.

http://www.signs101.com/forums/showthread.php?34986-Should-I-join-Signs-101-(Recommended-Reading)

 

[Correct Color]

I am currently in the position of helping a growing company implement an in-house graphics operation. They have always outsourced their printing and are now wanting to do it all under one roof.

Several lifetimes ago, I bought and sold printing -- litho printing, that is -- equipment for a living. And every so often, I'd get a call from some company that wanted to set up in in-house print shop.

And even though it probably cost me a good deal of money, I always told them basically the same thing:

"Look, you may think printing costs a lot, but the fact is the average printer would just about kill his momma for a 10% return. It's a fiercely competitive business, and it's not particularly high margin.

And you, you know absolutely nothing about the printing business. And armed with this complete lack of knowledge, you're expecting to manage to buy the most ideal machines for your needs, then install them, then hire a staff, and then produce more efficiently than people who have to produce efficiently or they'll go out of business. And if you do all that...

You might just save ten percent on your printing bill.

Maybe you might want to rethink this whole idea."

Myself, I'd give this same advice to your client.

 

[Gino]

Thanks, Gino, for your immeasurable assistance and kind words!

Now let's hear from the non-Neanderthals.

Sorry, but they were not meant to be kind. Somehow, you missed my point.

I see you use a much kinder and a more gentle approach, huh ??

Anyway, based on your other post #7, you admittedly in your own words are not up to he challenge, so I guess the company has already made their first mistake with bringing this stuff in-house and putting you in charge. yep, this will be fun to watch......... if ya ever come back.​

 

[jochwat]

You're a lovely fella, Gino.

 

[Marlene]

You're a lovely fella, Gino.

actually he is. we do get a little ticked off at companies that start their own inhouse sign shop so they don't have to pay an actual sign shop. what really ticks us off is having some clown ask us how to set it up. if you are assigned that job, I would assume you would know the answers to those questions. we all have had a business do this and cut us out of the loop so it doesn't set well. it has been explained by others in this thread. Gino is a nice guy and for you to all him names right out of the gate also doesn't set well. clearly you joined to pick brains, not share tips or be a part of this community. Gino, our Neanderthal as you called him, contributes, helps and is a part of the forum community. you owe him an apology for your nasty comment

 

[Fred Weiss]

Should I join Signs 101? (Recommended Reading)

The purpose of Signs 101 is to provide a venue and resources for individuals engaged in or interested in engaging in the craft, business and profession of sign making as a way to earn their living ... in full or in part. Conversely, Signs 101 is not here and is opposed to providing those same resources and venue to individuals not meeting that definition or to those who are professionals but do not agree with that purpose and who act in ways intended to thwart or compromise it.

Signs 101 is a community of like minded sign making professionals who seek to improve our own professional knowledge, abilities and profitability while helping other professional sign makers, of all experience levels, to do the same.

You are welcome here if you

• Earn your living, in whole or in part, as a sign maker
• Have earned your living, in whole or in part, as a sign maker
• Would like to earn your living, in whole or in part, as a sign maker
• Are an educator or a student involved in any of the artistic, graphic arts or design professions
• Are an individual or organization engaged in any of the artistic, graphic arts or design professions
• Are an individual or organization engaged in any of the artistic, graphic arts or design professions seeking professional suppliers for your designs
• Are a manufacturer or supplier of products or services of interest to our members

You are not welcome here if you

• Do not agree with the above stated purpose and description
• Do not meet any of the definitions stated above
• Are a non-professional buyer of signs seeking a supplier
• Are an individual or business seeking to create your signs and graphic products in-house rather than utilize the services of a professional sign maker
• Are a manufacturer or supplier of products or services of interest to our members but who engages in spam, unauthorized advertising without regard to our rules and without purchasing an appropriate merchant subscription

 

[Fred Weiss]

It's time for you to go Joe.

 

[Marlene]

It's time for you to go Joe.

THANKS!!

 

[eahicks]

This was a great thread! Just got caught up! Thanks to all who participated.

 

[jtiii]

The website is Signs101, the very idea being that it's a place to come to learn what there is to know about the sign making industry, and at a beginning level if that's where you are.

Joe makes a really great point! If you want to discourage guys like him you just need to change the name to Signs102!

 

[Baz]

Don't change anything!

This was a beautiful train wreck to read.

This type of guy always shows up once in a while.

Knows everything but actually knows nothing.

And the big boss with deep pockets who has to spend allot on sign work that thinks they can open their own shop to save TONS of money.

 

[Fred Weiss]

The value of communicating

This is interesting as the back story continues ...

After seeing that he was banned, Joe initiated an email exchange with me. The first requested that I delete the thread which I refused to do. The second email argued the request further and was again refused. The third, as of yet unanswered, mentions that the company he is helping is a trade show exhibit company.

Had he stated in his opening post or even in his registration that he was working with and hoped to be employed by a trade show exhibit company, I doubt he would have been perceived in the way he was perceived. After all, among the various products and services offered to paying customers by such an enterprise, we will find professionally produced graphics in the form of signs, printing, design and a host of other possibilities. All of which would have qualified Joe to be a member here and he likely would have gotten lots of positive and valuable replies.

Am I wrong?

 

[BigfishDM]

Thanks Fred, you just murdered a great prospect for me lol.

 

[Billct2]

I agree with that Fred...but are there tradeshow/exhibit companies that don't already do their own printing? All the ones I know are pretty complete operations, everything from graphics, to printing to fabrication and show set up. He's saying there a tradeshow company that has been outsourcing all their "sign" work?

 

[Baz]

Don't believe what those guys say.

It's all lies .... Or lies mixed in with a little truth.

You never get an honest answer with these people.