Hey designsbytmm I made it!

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

i wanna barf anymore when i see a guy with a cheapo plotter and who knows what software all of a sudden be bidding on jobs against me. it is an undeniable scourge in this business

Arlo,

You are quite right, but there is nothing that we can do about it. As a matter of fact - the vendors are more to blame than anybody else, not even the people buying the equipment.

It has happenned with vinyl, and soon will happen with the solvent printers.

More and more money keeps coming out this type of stuff. That is why, and I am sure that you have noticed, there are many that are going "different" directions - where the average person cannot go go unless they have a certain amout of experience. Just part of evolution IMO.

 

[iSign]

I don't know if any attempt to stop the onslaught at the gates of signs101 is possible. We will agree that we can't stop the onslaught into the trade... but of the many that start at the beginning... most will rely on their own dedication & be self motivated. In their search for resources, some find this site (or are referred by vendors in lieu of doing more training themselves?) & many of those that do are motivated & interesting new guests to the party like Garfield.

...then we get the high maintenance few like the "i cannot type thinks" character. These are when a sense of entitlement seems to come through with selfish expectation for helpful replies without 5 minutes effort into helping theirowndamnselves first.

I don't care if a 12 year old gets an entire sign business laid at his feet... if he shows up with an explanation of specific areas of interest, outlines existing research in progress, itemizes the extent of his understanding & then draws attention to the relatively few areas of missing info or experience that he is actively persuing additional help on... I think any one of us will race to be the first to help out this sort of individual.

The ones who spit out a few disjointed pleas for handouts like a begger on the corner with poor language, a bad attitude & a profile that compares to a shirtless, toothless & barefoot scavenger... I may toss the guy bag of fries or a buck twords his next bottle... but I can't see taking time out of my work day to teach that sort to set up shop down the street from me! ...or down the street from anyone else for that matter.

I'd rather kick 'em to the curb right off the bat unless they figure out how to socially interact properly without signs101 having to build a page to teach them common courtesy.

 

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

I can't see taking time out of my work day to teach that sort to set up shop down the street from me! ...or down the street from anyone else for that matter.

I think we can all agree with that comment.

In this particular case though, I do not think that Garfield was posting to "us" in general. It appeared as if he was trying to get a message to one of our fellow members - as the original post started with :

Hey designsbytmm I made it!

As for the requests for information PRIOR to earnest attempts at finding answers, I can honestly say that this industry is far from isolated. You would be suprised how many guys I know/knew that would never pick up a book when they had a vehicle in for repair ---- they would just pick up the phone and ask what to do! That is annoying, to say the least.

On the otherhand, we must all remember, that unlike many other industries the information of our industry is not as readily available in traditional forms - i.e: one must know where to look, and simple direction by those in the know should suffice.

 

[Cadmn]

there is big blame that should be pointed at Our suppliers their goal has become flood the market with machines at any cost. back in the day anyone could buy one shot & a brush & be in the same, position but many realised that there was no magic button. Everyone nowdays believe they can be graphic designers with NO skill because the schools have told them that on TV daily. with computers everyone believes they are experts after a week. the calls or thing I've heard "OH kewl I run publisher all the time making flyers & such to put on the doors of the office maybe I can go to work for you!
our industry has been slammed down to the point of lawn maintenance. every out of work person is told go get a mower & mow lawns for money. the industry is becoming Buy a cutter & make money & places like the 50signs.com? with the cheap signs is a pointer to heck anything goes cheap
I spent several years teaching Autocad & my students were taught to stand firm on not accepting 6 bucks an hour for their knowledge yet at another local school they were promoting their students to metal fabrication companies at minimum wage. why expect a proffesional person to make minimum wage?because the "Professional has been driven out of our industry by wannabes that expect to be professional with no work. most of us coild go out & buy a four wheel atv & get fairly capable of riding after a week but how many of us could race professionally at it after only a week of riding it ?
I went to colorado & skied down a hill but that doesn't make me a "downhill shier by NO stretch of the imagination.

 

[OldPaint]

WHAT DOUG SAID.....i wasnt being harsh on the guy, but hes in a job, and running a machine...HE DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT!!!! so how can i help him....i cant, he steped into something way over his head (because the employeer didnt want to pay some who has the abilities $20 AN HOUR...................SO THIS KID JUMPS IN WITH BOTH FEET FOR $15.... which he shouldnt have done....for any amount of money.......so now you got 2 mistakes....and we(people at 101)aint gona be able to teach this guy what he needed to know to begine with......THERE IS MY ONLY PROBLEM HERE.....anyone come here wanting help and has done their OWN LEGWORK....i got no problem with...
but the ones who buy equipment or take a job....WITH NO KNOWLEDGE of either....to me is not a really bright one....and we cant make silk purses out sows ears.....

 

[mtmdesigns]

WHAT DOUG SAID.....i wasnt being harsh on the guy, but hes in a job, and running a machine...HE DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT!!!! so how can i help him....i cant, he steped into something way over his head (because the employeer didnt want to pay some who has the abilities $20 AN HOUR...................SO THIS KID JUMPS IN WITH BOTH FEET FOR $15.... which he shouldnt have done....for any amount of money.......so now you got 2 mistakes....and we(people at 101)aint gona be able to teach this guy what he needed to know to begine with......THERE IS MY ONLY PROBLEM HERE.....anyone come here wanting help and has done their OWN LEGWORK....i got no problem with...
but the ones who buy equipment or take a job....WITH NO KNOWLEDGE of either....to me is not a really bright one....and we cant make silk purses out sows ears.....

1. this is America
2. The guy in question is going to run a multicam 50 100 cnc
3. why not help him
4. i gave him my number had an hour long conversation and he knows computers better then me.
5. I will have him running his 3 ax multicam on monday morning..
6. It's not that hard
7. it's really not, import art from your engineer(or draw yourself), define your plate, set your speeds plunge and rpm, set your toolpath, set your depth and your up and running.
8. he was asking how to run a cnc that's it, with the proper help from people who are positive and care for other people there should be no reason for him to fail..
9. Why so negative 60% of your work is trash in less then a year .

 

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

We do not understand what any of this fuss is about. This gentleman, Garfield, only indicated that he just obtained a job that he had been hoping for, and how happy he was that he did.

By looking at his drawing, he definitely has a talent that very few people, especially newbies, have (or will have). He also has enthusiasm. We do not understand why there is any negative feelings towards this guy. In the years past, people that were learning were doing so for "free". So if he can get $15 per - so be it. He never claimed once to be a CNC expert.

All in all, he truly has yet to ask a question on "how" to do anything AND he has never been COCKY at any given point in this thread, as what usually is the reason for the rest of us getting fired up.

Again, the initial post is titled: Hey designsbytmm I made it!, and that screen name belongs to only one - meaning that was a message to the same. Should he have stated Signs101, it could have been considered different.

 

[iSign]

We do not understand why there is any negative feelings towards this guy.

Just to be sure my own post was not misunderstood, I have absolutely no negative feelings, thoughts, or words against "this guy"

First, here is a brief excerpt edited out of the middle of my last post, the end of my post went on to critique OTHER new members with far less enthusium & self determination.

...most will rely on their own dedication & be self motivated. In their search for resources, some find this site ... & many of those that do are motivated & interesting new guests to the party like Garfield.

I think part of what caused this thread to take a turn was the discussion about "This board is gettin real bad about flamin newbies"

In my opinion the vast amjority of the noob flamin is justified by the initial approach of the noobs. It is not our responsibility to coddle people & coax some civility, communication skill, & common courtesy out of people... if they show up with little more then a sense of entitlement & a big question as to why riches have yet to flow from their machines as soon as they plug them in... they will be flamed!

 

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

With that - I agree. Many have lost, or never had the respect when asking - among other things.

 

[Garfield_Graffix]

Guess what

Well, say what you will but I have managed to become quite proficiant in this stuff in the past month. The owner says Im doing a whale of a good job and have a great attitude towards it. I have made some really sweet signs and figured out ways to do things that the other guy couldnt. All said I am doing well, just thought you all would like to know:Big Laugh boo yeah!

 

[steriltech]

Thank you Steve!!!!! Man a newbe or noob cain't say or post any question without some one bashing him Down! after all the the name of this here forum is signs 101!~!!! Not signs pro....Thank you all for giving us newbies a hand and well you know what to those how bash us whan we ask a simple minded question.....Wow check it I just past pre schooler now I'm a grade schooler kool!!!

 

[Techman]

There is a huge difference between an operator and a programmer setup ..

Operator.. All he has to do is push go and stop. and load the materials. Then he has to go get someone if there is a problem.. Can learn it in a few weeks.

 

[Cadmn]

garfiel congrats Techman as long as you got aprogram to run acad file & he knows Acad then no need for a programmer any more. the programmer has been replaced with a program. I used to have to program as the company I was doing it for had no such interim program.