Hey Fellers and Montroy.

[TheSnowman]

This is interesting. I have mixed feelings if they've "always" sold to anyone...but I don't think that's how this relationship should go. I have always been pretty loyal to Advantage, and was JUST about to start ordering at least my inks from Fellers, but I'm rethinking supporting something that's my direct competition now. I don't have a TON of people that come in saying they can get it cheaper somewhere else, but I have wasted plenty of time of the years quoting stuff only to hear "I can get it cheaper at X store" in the end. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[Gino]

In case no one realizes it yet....... Feller's has already removed all of it. I don't know about the company Montroy, in fact, I never heard of them.

I was talking to my rep [Fellers] this afternoon and he said, they thought they'd be speeding things up this way. You still had to show/prove you were a legitimate shop and all the other stuff, so unless I'm missing something.... this was never open to the public to buy. However, the public COULD see pricing on everything.

So again....

THEY HAVE REMOVED ALL PRICING AND NO ONE OTHER THAN SHOPS MAY BUY FROM THEM.

 

[rdm01]

Pricing has been pulled, happy about that. brian_fellers responses, however, have done more damage in my mind. If he is genuinely associated with Fellers, and I believe that has been verified, what he had said and the general *** hattery of how it was said leaves a terrible taste in my mouth. Worse the the "accidental" release of the website. I have quotes there, because many say they received completely different responses from Fellers and have cited that Frank made the call.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I don't know if you guys have noticed or not. But Player and Nishanare essentially demonstrating what some sign people fear could happen if our distributors sold direct to our our clients in a way so that distributors might relate. Whether it's makes financial sense or not, A sign maker wanting to cut out the middle man and order direct from the manufacture rather than from the distributor is similar to our clients wanting to avoid doing business with the sign maker and going straight to the distributor.

At least in our case we offer the service of putting the supplies together to make a new product. However, I fear that if distributors begin by selling supplies directly to our clients, it wouldn't be a stretch for them to the also start offering sign making services as well. Heck right now, you can submit artwork for something like a banner and some distributors will ship you the finished product. So it's kind of already happening to a certain extent.

So I find the threat of potentially having to compete with a distributor as more troubling then our clients knowing what our costs are. I'm not going as far as saying I fear competition with a distributor will ruin our business, but I'm certainly not going to do business with a distributor who wants to compete. and they should know this.

 

[SolitaryT]

Never heard of Montroy and probably have only ordered from Fellers about 3 times since they changed from Ameriban.
But what a great reason to never order from them again.
Besides their ridiculous catalog.
Love....Jill

Oh, come on, the what's not to love about the catalog? I mean, hundreds of pictures of Frank Fellers everywhere... it's amazing! I found the new one on my desk this morning, actually. He's all comic book style on the inside! It's great!

(Total sarcasm.)

 

[player]

Ya know, I didn't realize this before, but I didn't recognize the symptoms of an alcoholic. What for time do you start nipping ??

You are the biggest douchebag pompous egomaniacal schnook on the forum...this and others. I think you should stick to your dirty little jobs and shut TFU.

 

[player]

I don't know if you guys have noticed or not. But Player is essentially demonstrating what some sign people fear could happen if our distributors sold direct to our our clients in a way so that distributors might relate. Whether it's makes financial sense or not, A sign maker wanting to cut out the middle man and order direct from the manufacture rather than from the distributor is similar to our clients wanting to avoid doing business with the sign maker and going straight to the distributor.

At least in our case we offer the service of putting the supplies together to make a new product. However, I fear that if distributors begin by selling supplies directly to our clients, it wouldn't be a stretch for them to the also start offering sign making services as well. Heck right now, you can submit artwork for something like a banner and some distributors will ship you the finished product. So it's kind of already happening to a certain extent.

So I find the threat of potentially having to compete with a distributor as more troubling then our clients knowing what our costs are. I'm not going as far as saying I fear competition with a distributor will ruin our business, but I'm certainly not going to do business with a distributor who wants to compete. and they should know this.

Maybe a co-op buying group that purchases from a supplier that we know does not wholesale to the public or sell finished signs to the public... Not for everything but to show we can organize and affect the industry from our end as well... Otherwise if we listen to the jackwads there is nothing we can do but lay down and take it.

 

[MtnView]

Not for everything but to show we can organize and affect the industry from our end as well... Otherwise if we listen to the jackwads there is nothing we can do but lay down and take it.

Me thinks I know where Jimmy Hoffa has been all these years.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Otherwise if we listen to the jackwads there is nothing we can do but lay down and take it.

Maybe, however this very thread and Feller's response is evidence that we didn't really lay down and take it. Their customers made their voices heard and they took that part of the site down.

 

[SolitaryT]

I just saw this thread for the first time today and promptly emailed our sales rep. This is what I sent:

"I just read on signs101.com that you guys are now (or at least were, at some point recently) posting price lists online for the general public. Is this true?


Just curious.


Thanks,"

...and this is what I got back:

"No not at all I will email you a letter from Frank Fellers when I have access to it
Just a rumor from Grimco
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]I can't attach it from my cell phone I'll send it [/FONT][FONT=arial, sans-serif]tomorrow".[/FONT]

Shall I post the letter from Frank Fellers when I get it?

 

[royster13]

I would think 25%-75% savings by going direct.

We should try an order of popular material, perhaps 54" Orafol 3651 and see what a group buy might yield.

IMO you are very much mistaken about the margins an outfilt like Fellers makes...I would be very surprised if they made much more than 15%...

 

[bikecomedy]

Feller's statement. I'll post it. It's addressed to Valued Customers...

There are still many stories going around. Now it seems that this is all being blamed on another distributor?

For what it's worth I was sold product from Feller's day one, on the spot, with a CC on my first phone call to them in 2013. There would have had to be a simultaneous investigation to have checked me out for a purchase. Used a personal card for the purchase. Maybe the fact the purchase was several thousand makes the idea that I might be an actual sign shop less worth checking into. But now I am curious. This has been a good thread. Thanks everyone.


As far as margins go a 22% gross margin or more is the goal of a distributor. They could not stay open on less. Walmart works at 35% gross margin and most small businesses imo should be running at about a 45% gross margin.

 

[royster13]

As far as margins go a 22% gross margin or more is the goal of a distributor. They could not stay open on less. Walmart works at 35% gross margin and most small businesses imo should be running at about a 45% gross margin.

Walmart was 25.07% in Q3 and that is pretty consistent with where it has been in the last decade.....And I have no doubt that distributors would like 22%, however, in a competitive marketplace I am going to keep thinking it is less than that...

 

[bikecomedy]

Thinking we're talking orange and apples. I used gross margin. Are your numbers based on gross margin or net profit or??

 

[Nishan]

inevitable

I don't know if you guys have noticed or not. But Player and Nishanare essentially demonstrating what some sign people fear could happen if our distributors sold direct to our our clients in a way so that distributors might relate. Whether it's makes financial sense or not, A sign maker wanting to cut out the middle man and order direct from the manufacture rather than from the distributor is similar to our clients wanting to avoid doing business with the sign maker and going straight to the distributor.

At least in our case we offer the service of putting the supplies together to make a new product. However, I fear that if distributors begin by selling supplies directly to our clients, it wouldn't be a stretch for them to the also start offering sign making services as well. Heck right now, you can submit artwork for something like a banner and some distributors will ship you the finished product. So it's kind of already happening to a certain extent.

So I find the threat of potentially having to compete with a distributor as more troubling then our clients knowing what our costs are. I'm not going as far as saying I fear competition with a distributor will ruin our business, but I'm certainly not going to do business with a distributor who wants to compete. and they should know this.

Well said. To add to my thoughts, not too long ago there was the infamous thread "screw u 3m" when 3m promoted wrappers that used their products. Moves like this puts pressure on wholesalers that sell all brands, as they now feel that they are competing with their suppliers going direct... meaning they are suddenly dictated to by 3m how and what to stock. The fact that fellers have the sign companies buying from them and have that as leverage against the manufacturers, the only way now to protect the manufacturers to go direct to their clients (Sign companies) is to get the end user space. As for group buying and logistics.... the question is not whether each sign company has the logistics or resources... it 3m or avery decides to sell directly, they have the funds and business acumen to pull it off.

So I totally agree with Joe... only worry if they are going to compete with you.

 

[royster13]

Thinking we're talking orange and apples. I used gross margin. Are your numbers based on gross margin or net profit or??

Walmart's gross margin was 25.07%....Their net was 3.23% in Q3.....

 

[Fred Weiss]

IMO you are very much mistaken about the margins an outfilt like Fellers makes...I would be very surprised if they made much more than 15%...

As far as margins go a 22% gross margin or more is the goal of a distributor. They could not stay open on less. Walmart works at 35% gross margin and most small businesses imo should be running at about a 45% gross margin.

Walmart was 25.07% in Q3 and that is pretty consistent with where it has been in the last decade.....And I have no doubt that distributors would like 22%, however, in a competitive marketplace I am going to keep thinking it is less than that...

Thinking we're talking orange and apples. I used gross margin. Are your numbers based on gross margin or net profit or??

Walmart's gross margin was 25.07%....Their net was 3.23% in Q3.....

My company was offered distribution by 3M of their sign making vinyls about 25 years ago. The gross profit margin if you sold at list was 25% (the cost of goods for a $100 sale was $75.00 plus freight in.). I figured that our average discount to move a reasonable amount of product would be would be 10% to 15%. Then I thought about financing receivables and bad debts and walked away. If you get stiffed on a roll of vinyl you have to sell ten to be back to even. Not the margins I am comfortable working with.

 

[bikecomedy]

I think we are talking about different things. You are definitely right using the definition of gross (profit) margin posted for Walmart Q3. Sounds like the gross margins being referred to are Gross Profit Margin and Gross Margin. So we are talking oranges and apples.

​

 

[royster13]

I think we are talking about different things. You are definitely right using the definition of gross (profit) margin posted for Walmart Q3. Sounds like the gross margins being referred to are Gross Profit Margin and Gross Margin. So we are talking oranges and apples.

​

Please explain oranges and apples to me.....

 

[Fred Weiss]

I think we are talking about different things. You are definitely right using the definition of gross (profit) margin posted for Walmart Q3. Sounds like the gross margins being referred to are Gross Profit Margin and Gross Margin. So we are talking oranges and apples.

​

Looks to me like it's oranges and oranges. Only difference is whether you state in in currency or percentage. See this reference.