Biker Scout
New Member
Anyone can claim they are the "BEST" without having to prove or validate it. Now saying you're "First" or "#1" has to come from some kind of poll, vote or study. (even if it is narrow and flimsy)
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Hey Fellers and Montroy.
- Thread starter HulkSmash
- Start date
FatCat
New Member
Agreed.
Sorry I'm late to the party - I read this thread and others over the weekend and wanted to wait to talk to my rep today. Just got off the phone and she confirmed that yes, anybody can call and set up an account. *Doesn't need to be a "sign business" or even related to graphics biz. So this is a bit of a concern to me, but then again, maybe it really doesn't matter.
I guess the decision is what do WE as a community do about it? I guess I can stop buying from Fellers because I don't agree with their policy, but what assurances do I have that any other vendor doesn't do the same to some extent or the other?
MtnView
New Member
I noticed the same thing earlier at the bottom and wondered if there wasn't a way for the admins to restrict viewing posts to members only.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
My understanding of this thread was that its purpose was to highlight behavior that was negative for many members of the sign making profession with the intention of evoking a reaction that would cause a reversal of the behavior. It would, therefore, be counter productive to have the thread placed in a forum with restricted viewing.
Dennis422
New Member
If you are member of the sign making profession, why not sign up for the free membership?
Just saying...
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
If you are member of the sign making profession, why not sign up for the free membership?
Just saying...
I agree with the thought but the reality is quite different. Four out of five visitors to Signs 101 are either not registered or are but are not logging in.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Yes there is ... by posting the thread in a forum such as Sales, Marketing & Pricing which is restricted to registered members only. But the positioning of the thread was the OP's choice and he has not requested that it be moved.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I completely understand the concern for not wanting your customers to know what you're paying for vinyl or whatnot, but you don't have a problem with Gerber, Flexi, or the many other numerous manufactures who sell to end users is alright.
Over the years, we've lost nice big customers to distributors who sold cutters, printers and supplies to our customers, thus reducing our customer base. They then go on to become competitors, but we had to move forward..... and still bought from the only people in the game with their wares.
Listen, if you don't like then selling products to your end customer, just don't do their designs when they come in to have you cut and put them on their homemade signs.
Now, if you think any of these companies are gonna stop, because a sign forum squawked, just remember, I have a bridge I'd like to sell ya.
The way these people [who say they're not doing this kinda stuff] do it is.... they will advertise in trade magazines, websites and all kinds of media with a certain set of phone numbers, website and other contact information. They can advertise as a totally different name somewhere else, but with a different set of numbers and e-mail addresses and those calls are filtered to a different set of cubicals. The same place [company] receives all incoming calls, but are routed to different people where they have slightly different spiels. It's easier for them to track all their sales and inquiries in this fashion.
So, it's the old idea of pre-judging a customer before they come into your shop. If they're driving a Mercedes, they get one pricing..... if they come in... in a beat up VW Bug, they get treated a little differently. Many of you will say, Oh, but I don't do this....... BullSh!t !! Y'all do it. And that's what they're doing. It's just embarrassing, cause they got caught. Ya know darned well, if you have the b@lls to ask for a target budget for a project, you're gonna work around those numbers, otherwise, you probably wouldn't earn 1/2 your quotes.
Over the years, we've lost nice big customers to distributors who sold cutters, printers and supplies to our customers, thus reducing our customer base. They then go on to become competitors, but we had to move forward..... and still bought from the only people in the game with their wares.
Listen, if you don't like then selling products to your end customer, just don't do their designs when they come in to have you cut and put them on their homemade signs.
Now, if you think any of these companies are gonna stop, because a sign forum squawked, just remember, I have a bridge I'd like to sell ya.
The way these people [who say they're not doing this kinda stuff] do it is.... they will advertise in trade magazines, websites and all kinds of media with a certain set of phone numbers, website and other contact information. They can advertise as a totally different name somewhere else, but with a different set of numbers and e-mail addresses and those calls are filtered to a different set of cubicals. The same place [company] receives all incoming calls, but are routed to different people where they have slightly different spiels. It's easier for them to track all their sales and inquiries in this fashion.
So, it's the old idea of pre-judging a customer before they come into your shop. If they're driving a Mercedes, they get one pricing..... if they come in... in a beat up VW Bug, they get treated a little differently. Many of you will say, Oh, but I don't do this....... BullSh!t !! Y'all do it. And that's what they're doing. It's just embarrassing, cause they got caught. Ya know darned well, if you have the b@lls to ask for a target budget for a project, you're gonna work around those numbers, otherwise, you probably wouldn't earn 1/2 your quotes.
For now, I still stand by Feller's. Perhaps he screwed up, but here who hasn't ??
what if you become the end user ?
Not being in the USA, I cannot really understand the impact of fellers sales strategy. But just to put foward a thought. If the likes of Avery /3m /ritrama etc decide to sell directly to sign company's , how many of you will buy from them and how many will actually pay the premium for the service that fellers or other whoelsalers add... ....
Not being in the USA, I cannot really understand the impact of fellers sales strategy. But just to put foward a thought. If the likes of Avery /3m /ritrama etc decide to sell directly to sign company's , how many of you will buy from them and how many will actually pay the premium for the service that fellers or other whoelsalers add... ....
HulkSmash
New Member
I respect the Distribution chains. It would have to be a pretty significant difference in pricing.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
So, with this savings, you might be able to muster up enough clout to order Cor-X by the train carload and ink by the tractor trailer full... for pennies, huh ?? Eventually, how do you expect to haul this stuff all over the country, let alone up your way, which could present a slight problem ?? As you drive the distributors, techs and delivery guys outta business, who is gonna take their place ?? YOU...... ?? :ROFLMAO:
Sometimes, people just think in circles and think they've re-invented the wheel. :dog42
Tim Aucoin
New Member
You said what I was kind of thinking Gino... I just couldn't find words as good as yours!!
If ANYONE thinks we will ever be able to buy direct from the manufacturer... well, I'll take Gino's bridge he has for sale and give you 2 for the price of 1! It's simple economics... and if you don't understand that, get out of this business and go back to high school and start over because there's no hope for you otherwise!!!
You said what I was kind of thinking Gino... I just couldn't find words as good as yours!!
If ANYONE thinks we will ever be able to buy direct from the manufacturer... well, I'll take Gino's bridge he has for sale and give you 2 for the price of 1! It's simple economics... and if you don't understand that, get out of this business and go back to high school and start over because there's no hope for you otherwise!!!
So 100 rolls of vinyl would not be enough? I remember a number of years ago buying lifts of MDO from the mfg.
Plus your attitudes are more grade school than adult.
"If ya don't unerstand that, ya'all should just quit hyuck yuk... " Tools.
Cole Not Cold
New Member
What's the big deal. I personally appreciate a little transparency in pricing and I understand Feller's thought that anyone's money is as good as ours. I'll be worried when I see their Superbowl Ad pushing a DIY wrap kit for $99. How many people are actually going to attempt a wrap themselves?
Tim Aucoin
New Member
100 Rolls per month? Possibly, but I seriously doubt it. That's just ONE product. The other "legitimate" wholesalers will gather collectively and crush us like cockroaches!! I can only imagine a meeting with 3M (or Oracal).... "Yeah, I have a "commitment" from 30 other guys on a sign forum who "promise" to do a collective purchase of 100 rolls of 54" vinyl per month from you if we get the same pricing you give your long time loyal wholesalers."! "Oh, and bye the way, we will need you to handle the distribution and invoicing to each individual shop spread across the country." "What? what do you mean we have to do the logistics ourselves? Well, can we get a better price then?"! Be sure to thank them for their time as you are being escorted to the parking lot!!
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Ya know, I didn't realize this before, but I didn't recognize the symptoms of an alcoholic. What for time do you start nipping ??
Gino
Premium Subscriber
What's the big deal. I personally appreciate a little transparency in pricing and I understand Feller's thought that anyone's money is as good as ours. I'll be worried when I see their Superbowl Ad pushing a DIY wrap kit for $99. How many people are actually going to attempt a wrap themselves?
A little transparency between sign shops is healthy. It keeps everyone on their toes and makes sure customers aren't being ripped off. However, when your customer knows what you're paying for something, it takes a little of the magic out of the equation. For most shops, they can't warrant a price of vinyl costing $35 and trying to get $375 for two pick up doors. If you go to some of these people complaining about costs and see they are working out of a bedroom, weeding vinyl on the dining room table and wifey is out at a real job..... what magic can you behold upon a customer that it costs you 10 times to do the job to what the material costs and you're only using a fraction of that material and keeping the rest ?? A customer sees no overhead, no employees, no policies in the workplace, no anything and least of all..... no professionalism. So, what or why are they paying so much ?? Gonna say, well, only I know how to put the whole thing together ?? Ain't gonna fly, cause most customers have been around a little bit..... they do shop around before making a final decision.
Nope, if ya wanna talk the talk and walk the walk, ya gotta at least look the look and if ya ain't got a pot to p!ss in, why should your cusomter know you're only paying pennies for that roll of vinyl you're using ??
And to make you feel even better yet, they already are serving up DIY wraps. There was at least one thread here... about it.