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Hi, got a couple questions....

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by ::ONEBADBUG::, Jan 30, 2007.

  1. ::ONEBADBUG::

    ::ONEBADBUG:: Member

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    Hi

    I recently got a used encad croma 24 printer... (not sure yet if this was a bad idea)

    But, made the usual statup mistake, just like everyone else has at one time I imagine... like...
    first... I bought ink refil kits for the wrong unit, guy tells me "Yeah.. they work on all encad printers, TRUST ME!"...
    then after discovering they were the wrong ones...I bought the right ink carts just to find out I got ripped off with open box items that were dried out and wll not print in the printer...

    ..Ok so now you are thiking my printer is bad... maybe .. maybe not...

    I resorted back to the first ink kits I got, they were for encad nova pro series with bulk supply as oposed to being for NJ4 or Croma... So what I did was shave the thread taps on top of the cartrdges and put small rubber boots over them to hold the ink inside.. Yeah I'm saavy like that, or stupid.. you decide.......


    ok yes yer saying they arent beathing... they are....


    here's the problem... when I fill them... after I have run them out when I go to reinstall them they will prime perfect on the first shot... then I will go to print and my god!!! WHAT A F'N MESS! ink running down the printer paper looking like it was sprayed on by blind melon chitlins paint shop, bright oranges and reds look like flame jobs... greens and blues look like a lake bleeding across the page and black WHOA! dont ask...!

    and you will shut it down stop the print access the carts pull them out clean them off stick em back in and from there they now become impossible to prime again. or least it takes about 2-3 hours of messing with them to get it right again not to mention burning 100 feet of paper in the process....

    I need serious newbie help here...

    PS: just so you know that I am nt that dumb about the whole thing I run a glass shop and we do sandblasting on glass and have been using an Ioline 60" snmart trac for years here cutting 10's of thousands lines of texts into masking materials with proficiencey... the printer some one more or less gave to me as someone else gave it to them and no one had a need for it so I figured what the hell... I'l give 20 bucks for it.........
     
    Tags:
  2. skyhigh

    skyhigh Major Contributor

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    can't help ya on the printer Bug, but welcome to the neighborhood anyways.
     
  3. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Sounds like you're in a mess up to your elbows.

    Like you said, been there done that.... and recently, too.

    Another welcome from PA.
     
  4. MAB SIGNS

    MAB SIGNS Very Active Member

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    Croma 24's made nice coat racks, best of luck.
     
  5. ::ONEBADBUG::

    ::ONEBADBUG:: Member

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    You guys arent instilling me with confidence here....

    maybe I am going about this wrong?

    now I wonder if it is a mismatch ink and media.. got them reprimed but still makes the mess on glossy but when I use something else that that will suck the ink up it aint so bad... Using encads GA inkset... if that helps any....

    other side of the coin is too... but I am not looking to anything earth shattering with this. More or less if I can do my own in house advertising now and then like signs for our windows and the like... maybe change every quater or something like that... we j=have a lot of windows here to take advantage of for advertising.... go figure... :)=
     
  6. mladams7259

    mladams7259 Very Active Member

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    If you insist on making the machine work, chunk everything and buy the RIGHT cartridges and any other pieces that need replacing.
     
  7. Ian Stewart-Koster

    Ian Stewart-Koster Active Member

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    Or you could just ask for your $20 back...!
     
  8. bigbly

    bigbly Member

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    yup
     
  9. Ken

    Ken Major Contributor

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    BC
    Encad=<$
    .
     
  10. ::ONEBADBUG::

    ::ONEBADBUG:: Member

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    Then point me in a direction.....

    Machine is working... nothing broken or missing, that I can see or know of...
    Thats why I went and boght the right cartridges but, the right ones dont fire to print,
    but....
    the wrong cartridges are working & firing... just spraying ink to heavy.

    Hell for a $20 investment I'll try anything... Just looking for an avenue to pursue to try and make it work correctly.

    Would it be possible that there is smoething preventing the correct cartidges from working? Like electronics in the carriage asembly? but I would think that if it were bad it wouldn't alow the other cartridges to fire either... Ifthats the case then its to the dumpster...
     
  11. Checkers

    Checkers Very Active Member

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    Welcome Bug!
    To me, it sounds like you don't have a clue and you're doing everything wrong. Wrong ink & media combinations, wrong profiling and not a clue on how to do it right.
    I would suggest that you find a supplier who is familiar with the printer and be prepared to spend a good chunk of change to get you where you need to be. I think you'll need to start with the right inks, cartridges and media, easily $1,500 (if they're still made); and pay someone to come in and set it up right and show you the basics. That can easily run $1,000 a day, and you'll probably need 2 - 3 days of training to just get the ball rolling.
    With all that said, you're probably better off selling the printer to another sucker and getting yourself a newer aqueous inkjet (like the HP 5000 or 700+ series Encad) or invest in a new solvent printer. For what you'll end up spending just to get this one running right, you'll have a good down payment for something that will be at least acceptable technology by today's standards.

    Checkers
     
  12. ::ONEBADBUG::

    ::ONEBADBUG:: Member

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    Nah... I do have somewhat of a clue about incompatabilities, just noe savvy in that end of it yet... step 1 is to get them all dropping ink correctly first... And, Iactually stumbled across a good development this morning when I went back to square one fresh and unfrustrated...

    Of the supposedly "NEW" NJ4/Croma series carts the guy sold me only 1 of them (cyan) actually works. And I also discovered that he put different style cartridges in the matching encad boxes too boot as well (frickin asswipe duped me out of my $100 blind!).

    So, now I have discovered that I can take the one good full cyan cart and put it in any of the other 4 slots and each slot works 100% in the carriage and each one prints perfect and is firing correct ammouts of ink etc...

    so now at least I know that it isn't the printer itself rather that 3/4 of the cartridges he sent were toast..... Or if not then maybe I am priming them incorrect? but the 3 others when I fill them and go to blot them on a clean wet towel hardly anything if anything at all will come out of them and them when I put any of the of those in the machine they will not fire and just dribble up on the end of the piezo and make a hell of a mess after a few passes of the the pile of ink being dragged across material and dropping at random.

    and as far as the media goes I only had 1 roll that just came with it in the box with the printer to use which was obviously incompatible with the GA inks... switched to some large superB regular matte paper and 100% improvement...

    So now I am hunting for the other 3 correct carts to fill with the ink I have. And then go from there
     
  13. Checkers

    Checkers Very Active Member

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    Yep, priming is very important and, hopefully, the seals aren't shot. Please bear with me too, I'm drawing on the experience I had with a Novajet 36" and a Pro 700. SO, my info may not be accurate.
    If I remember correctly it's a 300 DPI printer, so the printheads are difficult to clog. So, you can try cleaning the cartridges by soaking the heads in Rapid Prep. Just be sure not to wipe the heads, because that can damage them. Only use a soft rag and dab them to clean them.
    Assuming the seals aren't shot and the cartridges are ok, you have to get almost all the air out of the feed lines, otherwise you're going to get nowhere quick. If you've ever siphoned gas or had to drain a pool, you'll understand the issue there.
    If none of that works, you'll have to bite the bullet and get new cartridges. If you do that, you might as well get the full set. The worst case scenario would be having to re-plumb the whole machine, replacing all the ink supply tubes and seals. That's definitely a messy process and not fun.

    Good luck,

    Checkers
     
  14. paul luszcz

    paul luszcz Active Member

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    This is an Encad thermal inkjet printer, which carries the print heads on each cartridge. The print head is replaced when you replace a cartridge.

    The good news is that you never have to spend a ton when your print heads wear out because you're spending a smaller amount to replace the inexpensive print head every time you buy ink.

    The bad news is the cheap print heads suck, and they clog constantly. Even new cartridges from Encad only work about 75% of the time. Almost anyone who owns an Encad is familiar with clogged print heads and "heads dropping out" in the middle of a print job.

    Start with new cartridges. Encad used to put a chip on each cartridge so it was hard to get third party inks. I don't know if they still do or not.

    If you have the right cartridges and you can tell they are still full of ink, you need to clean the heads, which are where the ink comes out. Use hot water on a cotton swab, or a little alcohol (not recommended by Encad). If you can't get the ink to flow out of it, try setting it in an ultrasonic cleaner.

    Once you install them, prime the heck out them to get them flowing. There should be a priming procedure for your printer. We had a small pump from Encad, called a NovaPump. Once primed, run a print head test to ensure that enough heads are firing.
     
  15. ::ONEBADBUG::

    ::ONEBADBUG:: Member

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    new carts direct from encad on the way....

    As far as I know the Croma isn't thermal, unless there is something in the internals of the print head. I was under the assumption that it was more or less just an oversized low DPI somewhat standard inkjet, not thermal inkjet... I dont think.

    and it doesnt have bulk delivery so I dont need to pull air & prime lines but I think the carts do need to be primed after filling as the only way I even coaxed the CYAN one to work at 100% was to set my air compressor on very low pressure to push some ink through the head untl it dribbled from the bottom of the cart, then dabbed it off on a wet towel (didn't wipe it) and is now working perfect.. did the sme with the other 3 as well and but no success...

    yes I was looking for some insight on cleaning them too. I figure even if I wind up destroying the ones I already have its no big loss...


    so far
    printer $20
    4 wrong encad aac ink kits $40 (they work but just not right)
    the 4 "new" carts someone dupped me on $100
    the new encad GA carts direct from Encad $114 and I will have them friday, fingers crossed
    (and they also told me to send the ones I have back and they will replace them as well... cool beans!)

    so total investment so far... $274.00

    I'm not complaing yet...... Still learning & enjoying it...
     
  16. paul luszcz

    paul luszcz Active Member

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    Thermal inkjet is the basic old desktop printer type, as opposed to piezo, which have long lasting printheads which are not replaced with the ink.

    If you don't have the ink delivery system, then you're right, all your ink is in the cartridge. But you still have to clean it and prime it to get the ink flowing. The printer should have a priming function if that is the case. Try the hot water or ultrasonic (jewelry) cleaner if you have one.
     
  17. Replicator

    Replicator Major Contributor

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    . . .

    I agree with checkers about this aspect of your situation . . . !

    :Welcome: 2 :signs101: and Good Luck . . . !
     
  18. ::ONEBADBUG::

    ::ONEBADBUG:: Member

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    Thanks for the welcome...
    and yes he has given me the kind of inuput I was looking to find from people who HAVE professional experience....

    Yes I am not sure if they are piezo I was just reffering to them that way as I read on a previous search that what what they termed the actual head of another cartridge... yeah I know, never assume...:rolleyes:

    But now at least I have a little more success... managed to coax the yellow into working. Soaked it in some warm tap water for about 5 minutes and then (oh boy here we go) got the air compressor and turnd it up to about 30psi and and blew it until I got about 20 steady drops or so of ink out the botttom (was actually worried I was going to explode the cart and make one hell of a freakin mess in the shop here LOL) and dabbed it off stuffed it in the carriage and low and behold about 10 passes into the test print it coughed out a mess of ink and started working, so did a little cleanup and after that and ran off about 10 test prints or so and both the Cyan and Yellow are now 100%.

    Tried to do the same with the black and magenta but no luck with them so far... I am going to let them sit overnight in a shallow bed of water and try some pressure on them in the morning and see what happens then.

    So anyway at least I got really good test prints off in 2 colors.... so at least I know now 100% that the printer is fully functioal. whaich was the center of my worry... and once cart problems are solved then I can asking you guys really redundant stuff like...
    ICC profiles
    what kinda ink goes best with what media...
    and that other kind of nifty stuff......

    ...and I put a link to our shop down in my sig to if you want to see what I actually do for a living.....

    Thanks for all the help thus far it is greatly appreciated!
    Gene
     
  19. ::ONEBADBUG::

    ::ONEBADBUG:: Member

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    Okay so today gets even better...
    The black cart decided to start working after soaking all night... but the magenta didn't...
    So now were printing in 2 colors and black.

    And now I know what Stochastic, dispersed dither, clustered dither, & error diffusion actually stand for after all of these years... ;)

    so far so good and havent broken the $500.00 mark yet on the investment to tinker with... cool beans!!

    ...and the new new cartridges should be here saturday. :)=
     
  20. ::ONEBADBUG::

    ::ONEBADBUG:: Member

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    Okay... so Now we have all new and correct inks, cartridges and went and got some compatible papers

    And how often does this happen...
    NEAR PERFECT RESULTS ON THE FIRST SHOT!

    So I manged to run off about 20 or so gradient tests, made a few funky little window signs, a couple larger posters and what nots just to get a feel for HOW it actually prints things...

    all in all not to difficult to grasp but... But one question I do have is.. How the hell do you make true black?

    And I also see that the actual K (black) cart must be used more for toning and shading thatn actually laying a black coat. When I set as 100% black color it comes out grey... but when I set the color at say 88% black then it prints in a near black but with a purplish tone to it or greenish if you go a little lighter suchj as 70% black.

    When I look at the colors numbers for 88% black,
    for RGB I get 0, 0, 5
    for CMYK I get 223, 223, 223, 0
    for HSL I get 0, 0, 13 (not even sure what HSL is)
    For HEX I get #202020

    Just curious if there is an actual RGB, CMYK, HSL or HEX# that gets as close to actual black as possible without being pointless or if thats as close as it gets....

    Any takers on the coponents that make actual black??
     
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