How do you hire?

[Reveal1]

Guy comes in, works 40 hours a week for you, doing a full time job. He's reliable. He's efficient. He's good at his job. Shouldn't he make enough to have a place to live, food to eat, a car to drive, utilities covered, and some left over to go on a vacation/save for retirement/go out and enjoy life? If you run the numbers, that requires about $20/hr on average.

So I get your argument. I've already admitted I couldn't pay the person I hired part time as a helper/assembler $15+/hr. I also agree that increasing minimum wage is going to have ramifications, many of them negative. That's not my argument here.

My argument is simple. You want a good employee? Someone with something between their two ears? Well, simple math tells me that you can't get that for much under $20/hr. Because less than $20/hr, you can't afford to pay for the basics and have a bit left over at the end of the month.

If you want to talk about how and why federal minimum wage may or may not be a good idea and how small businesses are getting squeezed out of the market place, I think starting another thread would be appropriate. My argument is discussing how you hire a good employee. The answer is simple: You want someone that can do basic math and knows basic personal finance, they're going to want $20/hr or more.

We agree on two things; 1) paying more will help attract more quality employees and 2) Min wage discussion probably belongs on another thread.

 

[KY_Graphics_Gal]

A living wage really depends on where you are living. The cost of living in rural Kentucky can't be compared with the cost of living in Louisville or Nashville or any other more urban area. You can buy a really nice house for $150,000 or you can rent a nice apartment for $700/mo. For the government to assume that $15/hr works for the entire country is just nuts. For me to pay my employees $15 I will have to raise my prices across the board and I already have a hard time with people thinking we are too high. My business is printing, graphic design, promo products, and signs. Some people lose their minds over charging $25 for a full color digital 2-sided yard sign, so imagine having to raise that price in order to pay the higher wages. Well, I just wouldn't be able to sell the sign. No sign sales, no business, no wages paid to anyone...

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I believe that employees will generally be worth what you pay them. If you pay low wages they will usually be depressed and always looking for a better paying job.
I have hired from the local prison. I pay them minimum wage until they are released from prison. Those that do a good job for me will get a raise. Those that don't show an interest in the work will not get a raise and will no doubt find another job. Most jobs that hire excons will only pay $10/hr to start so many of them go back to the behaviors that got them reincarcerated in the first place.
Of course, my business model does not include working with the general public, since I'm engaged in manufacturing. Not everyone can do this and I felt that it was a good public service that not very many businesses could do.
A minimum wage of $15/hr may kill the hiring of excons in the final days of their incrassation.

Felons are a whole nother discussion for another day. Glad to hear you are hiring out of the prison. There are so many people out there with scars on their records that get stuck w/o decent work. Some of them get older and want to calm down and do good in life. I have hired felons before that have done very well... some not so much but I don't think any worse odds than the general public

 

[myront]

Unlikely you'd go wrong with retired military. "Retired military" means 20yrs active duty service, already have the best medical insurance and a pension. "Retired military" can still be as young as 38. Disciplined, great work ethics, gets along with others etc.
I'm paid pretty well for the area and it's only around 3 miles to my house. Why haven't I tried getting on with Civil Service? Not that much of a demand for graphics without requiring a major move to the big cities. Not my lifestyle. Quality of life and family are very important factors to me.
p.s. need to make it to true retirement.

 

[unclebun]

I currently pay myself less than $15/hr (by far). Granted, my wife also works (at a wage commensurate to our area's wages, which is also less than $15/hr), but where we live we have a nice townhouse which is all paid for, we drive late model car and truck, we lack for nothing. Do we live large? No. We live modestly. We don't have a phone that costs $1000, we don't get a new phone every year. We keep our cars until it's not economical to maintain them before we get a new one.

But around here, rent in a satisfactory apartment starts around $400/month. We spend about $400 month for food for two. Utilities and phone are about $380/month. Insurance for two cars is $180/month. Health insurance is $650/month. So except for that, we have far lower expenses than your example. And I have an employee who has far lower expenses than I do, even though his gross pay is more than mine.

We're in the same situation as the Kentucky gal. We're already pushing the limits of what our customers are willing to pay, and we have a steady stream of newcomers to the trade charging less than half what we do.

The problem isn't us. It's the colleges and the people on high who have put certain prices into the stratosphere when it had no basis in reality. Even real estate. They did that, foisted it on college students, and told them they could command those kinds of salaries because of a piece of fake sheepskin. But the education they are getting contains nothing more or better than what was available 50 years ago. And it does nothing to prepare the graduates for actually working. For that matter, what, exactly, in the starting sign shop employee's work requires a college degree? Absolutely nothing. You can learn everything on the job, which means apprenticing. And apprentices are paid less than a tradesman because they are receiving an education while they work. That's the one thing I would be willing to entertain having a trade union for.

 

[FactorDesign]

I've never hired anyone in the sign industry, but I've been a part of it for about 15 years as an employee. Here's my history and maybe a perspective from the other side.

Shop #1
I started at a Fastsigns in FL making ~$8/hr, but wasn't there long as I found out I was just filler until the assistant manager came back from breaking her arm in multiple places loading the laminator.

Shop #2
Moved back up to VA and basically ran a shop for the owners who never showed up, making $12/hr. I had a bunch of debt from a bad breakup in FL and I had to live with my folks for a while so the money was fine but it wasn't a livable wage if I had to pay more than the $300/mo they charged me. After 5 years of that I was making a whopping $13/hr when they decided to just change the locks over the weekend and hire part time people instead, with zero notice. They told me I could just be on call and work when they needed me (read: let the work build up, then have me come in for a couple days a week and work myself to the bone. They had me design, proof, print, and wrap 2 cars in a weekend with zero assistance in the past and never paid overtime so I knew this wasn't going to work. When I declined their 'generous' offer to re-hire me as an on call employee they fought me on the unemployment, so I ended up getting nothing for a couple months while I was looking for a new job.

Shop #3
Had to take a pay cut back to $10/hr starting at a new place and only after 3 years with no raise and interviewing with another shop that was willing to pay more I suddenly got a raise to $16/hr, which was finally enough to start looking at a ~$100,000 townhouse with the savings I'd built up after selling my dignity and living above my parents garage for the last ~8 years. Worked there for another 2 years. Still friends with the owner but I knew he wasn't gonna pay more and I had to move on.

Shop #4
Started dating a college girl in NC and want to move there, and I get a job making $19/hr. Sounded like a lot of money to me but come to find out that it doesn't exactly go very far when a shithole apartment around here is $1200-1500/mo + all sorts of mandatory fees like trash service (its a dumpster that gets emptied once a week, stop pretending), and a $100 cable package that doesn't even include the cable box or modem. 3 years there, with yearly 3% raise and I'm making more than I ever have, but also basically living off of my credit cards which are now maxed out and after paying rent and the minimum payments on the cards I've got about $300 to cover gas which is about $120/mo with a long commute, food (I try to eat once or twice a day if I can manage), and any other unexpected bills (had 4 root canals in the last year and a half).

Now I'm on my way out of the signage industry in a couple weeks. Turning my hobby / side business of 3D printing into a career as a field service engineer. It's a decent pay bump and I see a lot more room for growth.

I think one of the biggest problems in the industry is how cheap the end products are expected to be. People want a high quality product made locally with next day turnaround, but they want to pay like it's coming on the slow boat from China.

 

[Boudica]

I've never hired anyone in the sign industry, but I've been a part of it for about 15 years as an employee. Here's my history and maybe a perspective from the other side.

Shop #1
I started at a Fastsigns in FL making ~$8/hr, but wasn't there long as I found out I was just filler until the assistant manager came back from breaking her arm in multiple places loading the laminator.

Shop #2
Moved back up to VA and basically ran a shop for the owners who never showed up, making $12/hr. I had a bunch of debt from a bad breakup in FL and I had to live with my folks for a while so the money was fine but it wasn't a livable wage if I had to pay more than the $300/mo they charged me. After 5 years of that I was making a whopping $13/hr when they decided to just change the locks over the weekend and hire part time people instead, with zero notice. They told me I could just be on call and work when they needed me (read: let the work build up, then have me come in for a couple days a week and work myself to the bone. They had me design, proof, print, and wrap 2 cars in a weekend with zero assistance in the past and never paid overtime so I knew this wasn't going to work. When I declined their 'generous' offer to re-hire me as an on call employee they fought me on the unemployment, so I ended up getting nothing for a couple months while I was looking for a new job.

Shop #3
Had to take a pay cut back to $10/hr starting at a new place and only after 3 years with no raise and interviewing with another shop that was willing to pay more I suddenly got a raise to $16/hr, which was finally enough to start looking at a ~$100,000 townhouse with the savings I'd built up after selling my dignity and living above my parents garage for the last ~8 years. Worked there for another 2 years. Still friends with the owner but I knew he wasn't gonna pay more and I had to move on.

Shop #4
Started dating a college girl in NC and want to move there, and I get a job making $19/hr. Sounded like a lot of money to me but come to find out that it doesn't exactly go very far when a shithole apartment around here is $1200-1500/mo + all sorts of mandatory fees like trash service (its a dumpster that gets emptied once a week, stop pretending), and a $100 cable package that doesn't even include the cable box or modem. 3 years there, with yearly 3% raise and I'm making more than I ever have, but also basically living off of my credit cards which are now maxed out and after paying rent and the minimum payments on the cards I've got about $300 to cover gas which is about $120/mo with a long commute, food (I try to eat once or twice a day if I can manage), and any other unexpected bills (had 4 root canals in the last year and a half).

Now I'm on my way out of the signage industry in a couple weeks. Turning my hobby / side business of 3D printing into a career as a field service engineer. It's a decent pay bump and I see a lot more room for growth.

I think one of the biggest problems in the industry is how cheap the end products are expected to be. People want a high quality product made locally with next day turnaround, but they want to pay like it's coming on the slow boat from China.

Wow, reading this makes me realize just how fortunate I am! I appreciate the perspective.

 

[JetPress]

I think one of the biggest problems in the industry is how cheap the end products are expected to be. People want a high quality product made locally with next day turnaround, but they want to pay like it's coming on the slow boat from China.

Since I started working in the sign business I noticed this more and more happening. I don't want to derail from the main discussion but I blame the instant gratification mostly everyone is addicted to. We want new things every day, right away and the quality amazing. I have a few artist friends who are overworking themselves just to stay relevant on social media. It's now more about how much new content you can produce and not really taking time to appreciate the art.

 

[Jeremiah]

Some forums are interesting, they are flooded with opinions based on Entitlement, rather than actually working for a living or earning your pay. A friend said that many want the Entry level job eliminated . What would Billy Bob's Burger Palace price a plain burger for if minimum wage was 15.00 per hour. 9.99 for a plain. Burger and 9.99 for small fries?

 

[signage]

everyone seems to forget that if everything starts costing more because minimum wage goes up that means everything will go up by multiples. Think about the farmer needs to buy product to raise the animal or vegetable, so he needs more money, and it keeps going on until you get the finished item you want. So price will go up and at was has happened in the past the gap poverty to wealth will just get larger.

 

[Pewter0000]

In terms of hiring, if you have staff you trust with good work ethic, you can always include them in the hiring process. They don't necessarily have to be in on the whole interview - they can join in for a pt. 1 or a pt. 2 and could tell you if they think they're a good fit to work with. A few excellent workers that don't get along may not be as valuable as less experienced ones that do. Prevent problems before they start.

 

[Big Rice Field]

Occasionally an Indeed posting and an ad on our street reader board. Problem is the pool of good quality applicants is getting harder and harder to come by. My wife has also experienced this in the hospitality industry too. Not many can pass the mandatory drug test and/or background check. Not many want to work a full 40hr week. They want great pay with little actual work. They can't show up on time or always call out for every little sniffle, headache, toe ache, kids, etc. especially on Mondays and Fridays.

Unfortunately, our society has gone downhill since the breakup of marriages, the permissive society and the lack of a work ethic in the " me" generation. Today's workforce is subpar with the drug abuse and lack of morals. The legalization of recreational drugs will only make it worse.

You want a solid pool of decent workers? Pay no less than $20/hr. Nationwide minimum wage of $15/hr is a round the corner and it's already implemented or in the process of being implemented within the next few years in a lot of states.

The simple reality is: A lot of small businesses can't afford to pay a good, living wage. Asking someone that just spent $80k on a 4 year degree, with $60k in student loans, to get paid $15/hr, while you can make $14.50/hr working unskilled labor is a recipe for trouble.

To be clear, I also don't blame small businesses for wanting to keep wages down / not being able to afford "competitive" wages. Between competition from other competitors, online competition, and the big companies constantly squeezing for cheaper and faster, what can you really do?