How do you keep consistent colours on roll to roll printer? (Epson SC80600)

[JayVal]

I'm printing on an Epson SureColor SC80600, and there are times where I have to re-print a section, or a patch for something I would have printed months prior. Sometimes the colours match, and other times, the colours are off. I keep everything the same, media, printer settings, same files, etc... I've worked at a print shop where I would calibrate the digital laser printer to reset the colours to match the baseline curves as my only experience with keeping colours consistent in the printed product.

Any recommendations on how you would maintain consistent colours over a long period of time, or any recommendations on how to calibrate the colours back to a baseline setting? Some research has pointed to the X-rite Eye-1 device that would work with our Onyx RIP system, but I don't know anyone with any hands on experience with this.

 

[greysquirrel]

Xrite Eye1 buy one and you can re-linearize all of your profiles. It's super easy, takes 5-10 of your time. It does help to start with a profile that matched your media as well.

 

[Boudica]

Do you use Quick sets? I've experienced that there are settings deep inside a quick set that can alter the color of a given print. I've run into this a few times, so I try to be very consistent with which quick set I use. Some of them are so similar it doesn't seem like a big deal, but it can be a big deal when colors don't print the same as before.

 

[FrankW]

Because of varying environmental conditions like air temperature and humidity, together with material deviations, that mentioned differences are common.

So the first step to have constant colors is to set up constant environmental conditions.

In addition, most of this deviations can be „flattened“ by doing re-linearisations (calibration of dot gain) on a regular basis. You can do that with onyx. This will not help you with jobs you have created until the first linearization, but from then.

But do not forget: prints are fading with time. Solvent prints will not be stable for 3 years and than starts fading, they fading from the first day. The mentioned three years is related to the first time this fade can be noticed when regularly viewed.

 

[victor bogdanov]

also material batches can vary in white point. One material I use I have to pay attention to batch and roll number and use the rolls in numerical order to ensure no variation in wallpaper panels.

learned this the hard way when some some reprinted wallpaper panels were just slightly lighter/darker, after lots of trouble shooting I noticed the material white was just slightly different but enough to make the panel look off next to panels from other material batches

 

[JayVal]

Xrite Eye1 buy one and you can re-linearize all of your profiles. It's super easy, takes 5-10 of your time. It does help to start with a profile that matched your media as well.

This is the direction we were looking at going, but I can't find any information on this system. I've also been waiting to hear a reply X-rite for more information on the process for a couple weeks now also.

 

[JayVal]

Do you use Quick sets? I've experienced that there are settings deep inside a quick set that can alter the color of a given print. I've run into this a few times, so I try to be very consistent with which quick set I use. Some of them are so similar it doesn't seem like a big deal, but it can be a big deal when colors don't print the same as before.

yes, we basically have 1 main quickset we use daily. On the most part everything stays the same, but there re-send the same job without re-ripping the job and the print comes out with different colours, slightly shifted

 

[MJerome]

Get the X-rite i1iO pro3 the iO is the robotic arm and table. If you don’t get the robotic arm you have to manually read in the patches, plus you will naturally be rushed doing this and get bad readings.

 

[JayVal]

Because of varying environmental conditions like air temperature and humidity, together with material deviations, that mentioned differences are common.

So the first step to have constant colors is to set up constant environmental conditions.

In addition, most of this deviations can be „flattened“ by doing re-linearisations (calibration of dot gain) on a regular basis. You can do that with onyx. This will not help you with jobs you have created until the first linearization, but from then.

But do not forget: prints are fading with time. Solvent prints will not be stable for 3 years and than starts fading, they fading from the first day. The mentioned three years is related to the first time this fade can be noticed when regularly viewed.

We do try our best to to keep environmental conditions the same. We have an enclosed area with stable heating, and we try to keep a humidifier going to keep the environmental humidity stable. But of course, on extreme weathery days, humidity is the hardest to control with the large area we have.

And with the fading over time, that 100% makes sense, but if I'm seeing shifting colours in prints within a week of each other, I see that as an issue for us when producing large murals. Especially when if one panel gets damaged during transport/install and we have to reprint. (Speaking out of a few recent experiences)

Re-linearizing looks to be the most ideal once we have a baseline linearization. But I'm assuming this would require a spectrophotometer device?

 

[JayVal]

also material batches can vary in white point. One material I use I have to pay attention to batch and roll number and use the rolls in numerical order to ensure no variation in wallpaper panels.

learned this the hard way when some some reprinted wallpaper panels were just slightly lighter/darker, after lots of trouble shooting I noticed the material white was just slightly different but enough to make the panel look off next to panels from other material batches

oh yes, we've run into this problem and are trying to come up with a long term solution. I have discovered that different production plants produce different white points. The main product we print on comes from different factories in different countries. We only accept the product made from one country and if we get sent product from another factory/country, we send it back now.

 

[JayVal]

Get the X-rite i1iO pro3 the iO is the robotic arm and table. If you don’t get the robotic arm you have to manually read in the patches, plus you will naturally be rushed doing this and get bad readings.

would you recommend that over the i1Publish Pro 3? That was the one we were looking at. We would also like to be able to measure a pantone from the pantone book and reproduce the colour in print.

 

[netsol]

would you recommend that over the i1Publish Pro 3? That was the one we were looking at. We would also like to be able to measure a pantone from the pantone book and reproduce the colour in print.

we have several of the older i1's but i would agree no one ever regretted getting the robotic arm unit.
it is an involved process and no one can say eliminating human error is not a good thing

 

[Boudica]

yes, we basically have 1 main quickset we use daily. On the most part everything stays the same, but there re-send the same job without re-ripping the job and the print comes out with different colours, slightly shifted

Still in the queue, and you pull it back up and it's different? That is a weird one.

 

[ColorCrest]

I've worked at a print shop where I would calibrate the digital laser printer to reset the colours to match the baseline curves as my only experience with keeping colours consistent in the printed product.

Any recommendations on how you would maintain consistent colours over a long period of time,

Just as you would routinely calibrate the laser printer because of its inherent "color drift," you would do the same for the inkjet. However, know the reason for the laser color drift is because of the heat in its process, your model of inkjet has no such issue, nor does it drift due to typical shop environment fluctuations. This machine is typically extremely stable in that regard especially considering all the more likely causations of trouble. Here in the LA basin of SoCal, we regularly have cool wet marine layers in the AM, abrupt burn-off turning to dry heat within a few minutes, in heated rooms turning to air conditioned or even open bay doors with swamp coolers, etc. Never have I experienced drift from using multiple machines simultaneously of your model or other Epson models, aqueous or solvent, going so far back as the GS6000.

If you're printing every day, then every day deserves a check print of the Onyx Quality Evaluation file, at least, if not for your favorite shop file. It's smart to rearrange file elements to spread across the print layout in a row, say 6 inches tall, instead of the largish rectangle that it is. Position a medium gray swatch on each end of the row to check consistency from left edge to right edge. Doing so may reveal why every other tiled panel needs to be flipped in the RIP.

You will get far better use from the Pro 3 hand held gizmo over others. Automated spectros are mainly meant for frequent profiling. Nobody wants to do that. After a good profile is made, you just want to measure a very few swatches only when necessary in order to bring back the machine into its initial calibrated state. It could be weeks or months between reading calibration strips. Visually judging daily evaluation prints against the master is the clue to check if recalibration might be needed. If the machine is kept in calibration, the original profile can be valid for years. If automation is a must have, why not order the X-Rite i1iSis 2 XL?

Last but not least, training is a good investment and savings of time and expense are not to be underestimated.

Good luck.

 

[FrankW]

I like the i1 Pro 3, the i1iO scan table is cool, but very expensive.

Optional available for Onyx Thrive is ColorCheck, for process control. This will save data of a reference measurement swatch (best taken directly after a base calibration and profiling), and will compare it with later measurements. Doing the check before doing color critical jobs, you will be warned of color deviation before wasting vinyl for big jobs, and take action.

The same functionality is available hardware-based with a Barbieri SpectroPad DOC Spectrophotometer, in this case completely computer independent.

 

[LiqueColor]

would you recommend that over the i1Publish Pro 3? That was the one we were looking at. We would also like to be able to measure a pantone from the pantone book and reproduce the colour in print.

Contact me if you want to buy our i1Publish. It’s 4 months old and comes with a hardware dongle so you can more it from computer to computer. $1200

 

[JayVal]

Still in the queue, and you pull it back up and it's different? That is a weird one.

it was weird and unfortunate and called for a half day of trying to match a colour I spent time matching to a pantone. The difference in colour was very noticeable since the replaced panel was near the middle. This was during the summer and not even 1 week prints apart, and with the same roll I ended the previously printed panels with.

 

[JayVal]

Just as you would routinely calibrate the laser printer because of its inherent "color drift," you would do the same for the inkjet. However, know the reason for the laser color drift is because of the heat in its process, your model of inkjet has no such issue, nor does it drift due to typical shop environment fluctuations. This machine is typically extremely stable in that regard especially considering all the more likely causations of trouble. Here in the LA basin of SoCal, we regularly have cool wet marine layers in the AM, abrupt burn-off turning to dry heat within a few minutes, in heated rooms turning to air conditioned or even open bay doors with swamp coolers, etc. Never have I experienced drift from using multiple machines simultaneously of your model or other Epson models, aqueous or solvent, going so far back as the GS6000.

I remember when we first got the machine, I dont' remember having issues with colour shifting, but when we had to get our printheads replaced, we started noticing fluxations. When I first saw the colour fluxation, I created a set of swatches to check on the daily if the colours are consistent. Most of the time there were no issues, but maybe once or twice a week the grays would print out cool rather than the warmer grays that would consistantly print prior. Sometimes I'd turned the machine off and back on, and the colours would revert back to the warmer shade of gray.

If you're printing every day, then every day deserves a check print of the Onyx Quality Evaluation file, at least, if not for your favorite shop file. It's smart to rearrange file elements to spread across the print layout in a row, say 6 inches tall, instead of the largish rectangle that it is. Position a medium gray swatch on each end of the row to check consistency from left edge to right edge. Doing so may reveal why every other tiled panel needs to be flipped in the RIP.

You will get far better use from the Pro 3 hand held gizmo over others. Automated spectros are mainly meant for frequent profiling. Nobody wants to do that. After a good profile is made, you just want to measure a very few swatches only when necessary in order to bring back the machine into its initial calibrated state. It could be weeks or months between reading calibration strips. Visually judging daily evaluation prints against the master is the clue to check if recalibration might be needed. If the machine is kept in calibration, the original profile can be valid for years.

That's what I'm hoping for. If we can get to a point where we have that initial calibrated state, I'm hoping to be able to get back to that calibrated state for years to come since we usually have some reprints/patches to produce for updates or fixes for damages. I'm feeling hopeful about this situation now!

 

[JayVal]

I like the i1 Pro 3, the i1iO scan table is cool, but very expensive.

Optional available for Onyx Thrive is ColorCheck, for process control. This will save data of a reference measurement swatch (best taken directly after a base calibration and profiling), and will compare it with later measurements. Doing the check before doing color critical jobs, you will be warned of color deviation before wasting vinyl for big jobs, and take action.

The same functionality is available hardware-based with a Barbieri SpectroPad DOC Spectrophotometer, in this case completely computer independent.

Thanks for that note. That sounds like something very helpful since we're consistantly trying to match pantone colours. It would be nice to not have to manually colour match previously printed colours and trust a hardware to do it for me. We do have Onyx Thrive, but I'll have to check what we got in our package of Thrive if we have that option.

 

[FrankW]

Thanks for that note. That sounds like something very helpful since we're consistantly trying to match pantone colours. It would be nice to not have to manually colour match previously printed colours and trust a hardware to do it for me. We do have Onyx Thrive, but I'll have to check what we got in our package of Thrive if we have that option.

ColorCheck isn´t a tool to match pantone colors, it is a tool to check color consistency. Pantone colors are difficult to match because they are originally solid colors mixed out of 18 base colors, to reach colors not reproducable on 4C offset printing machines. There are swatches available named Pantone Bridge, to check which 4C-color is the nearest to a given Pantone color.

You will get as near as possible to pantone colors if you create precise output profiles in Onyx for every media you use.