How do you work with the limited art board size?

[Signout]

Hi everyone, I have been trying to move over to Illustrator after using Flexi Sign Pro for the last 10+ years. I really like Illustrator, but I continue to be frustrated with the limited art board size! I understand that some probably just scale larger signs, but many times, we will take a picture of a vehicle, scale it to size and then fit our lettering to adjust for rivets, windows etc. Scaling in this situation seems like a hassle! I also struggle with the text not being the actual size you type in - Illy seems to measure the text box instead of the actual text. I would love to have some veteran users explain their process to working with the limitations..... I would LOVE to use Illustrator 100% instead of bouncing back and forth with Flexi. Any input would be AWSOME!

 

[mpn]

On the type issue I use a rectangle/square for checking size.

 

[John Butto]

On something large just use a scale of 1" equals a 1'. So 4" is 4' and when you blow up to actual size just enlarge 400% and then 300%. I do that in those % so as not to enlarge to much all at once and get the message it will fall off the art board. If it is too large you can then divide the artwork up and get another artboard and drag them on to it.

 

[OldPaint]

i dont use illy........and i DO USE COREL....
its art board(work space)is 150 FEET X 150 FEET)))))

 

[Bly]

Wow. I never saw THAT coming.

 

[GAC05]

Switch your ruler units to metric and then it will be really easy to work at 1/10th scale.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work this way:
>>>
MARS CLIMATE ORBITER TEAM FINDS LIKELY CAUSE OF LOSS
A failure to recognize and correct an error in a transfer of information between the Mars Climate Orbiter spacecraft team in Colorado and the mission navigation team in California led to the loss of the spacecraft last week, preliminary findings by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory internal peer review indicate.
"People sometimes make errors," said Dr. Edward Weiler, NASA's Associate Administrator for Space Science. "The problem here was not the error, it was the failure of NASA's systems engineering, and the checks and balances in our processes to detect the error. That's why we lost the spacecraft."

The peer review preliminary findings indicate that one team used English units (e.g., inches, feet and pounds) while the other used metric units for a key spacecraft operation. This information was critical to the maneuvers required to place the spacecraft in the proper Mars orbit.

"Our inability to recognize and correct this simple error has had major implications," said Dr. Edward Stone, director of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. "We have underway a thorough investigation to understand this issue."
>>>>>

or maybe not....


wayne k
guam usa

 

[OADesign]

Yes as other have said, you can work at a scale. But this make me sooo nervous. I have worked with many guys over many years in the industry that really don't pay attention to details, nor do they communicate those details well. I've seen many occasions where someone is working in Illy, at 10% scale, failed to communicate that scale to some outsource company. Most of those guys will just "push the button", and don't take the time to double check work order against actual art. No slight against them its not really their job. But then Products come back 10% scale. Who's fault? Yours. If you choose this work flow. Be careful and double/triple check the details.

 

[eahicks]

Yes...no one wants to wind up with an 18" Stonehenge.

 

[nikdoobs]

I always work to scale and state the scale in my proofs/ shop drawings. It makes it easier on your fabricators to be able to use an architects scale.

There is a nice plugin for illy by hot tools;

https://www.hotdoor.com/cadtools/overview

This is similar to the cad tools feature on flexisign. it also allows you to pull your full size measurements from scaled down objects. I highly recommend this pluging if you use Illustrator and need to add a lot of size call outs to your drawings. It's highly customizable and comes with other add on features. It's $300, but well worth it.

Plus, they already have the CC version released!

 

[Techman]

For $300 you can own corel draw and never have to worry about any plugin that should included in the first place.

 

[OldPaint]

i find it hard to fathom........."i was FLEXI SIGN PRO user for 10 years....and you want to move backward....... to something like illy?
FLEXI has a tool in it where you can change from FLEXI desktop to COREL, and a couple others....

 

[Bly]

But let's face it. Adobe is the print industry standard.

Whenever anyone tries to give me a Corel file I cringe.

 

[GAC05]

But let's face it. Adobe is the print industry standard.

Whenever anyone tries to give me a Corel file I cringe.

Thing is that if the Corel driver was worth his salt you would never know he gave you a file produced in Draw.
If he/she is just giving you a .cdr then you need to hang out with a better class of Corel users.
Giving a printer a cdr file for production is about the same as getting a powerpoint ppt from a Government official.....

wayne k
guam usa

 

[OldPaint]

THANK YOU........

 

[Wafels]

I use Corel for that.
I've been Illustrator user for many years before i got my hands on Corel, and never thought that I even would be using Corel, even hated it back in university and kept using illy instead.
This changed though when I got my current job, we have illy and Corel here and now I use Corel 99% of time, because it's more comfortable and faster to work with.
Using Illy only to open pdf saved from Mac, resave them and open in Corel Oh and for "cut after print" files for vinyl printed on agfa.
That's my opinion though.

 

[Techman]

But let's face it. Adobe is the print industry standard.

only to pure adobe users.

 

[nikdoobs]

For $300 you can own corel draw and never have to worry about any plugin that should included in the first place.

I don't currently own/use that plugin because most of jobs/ drawings I make don't require a lot of measurement call outs (just basic substrate sizes and letter sizes).

It's very much a generational thing as far what program you feel comfortable using. I would imagine if I was born in the 70's I would be a Corel user. But most young creAtives today are leaning photoshop, illustrator, and other creative suite programs.

Its also about what program you are proficient in and what program fits your needs. I learned computer graphics/ design on photoshop and Illustrator which work very well together and I'm comfortable with.

If you want to compare illustrator and corel draw each program basically does the same thing but have minor advantage
And disadvantages. There are three things that illustrator is missing to make it the program of choice for sign makers/designers.

1. Larger artboards.
2. Direct print/cut to printers and plotters.
3 vector smoothing tools. ( like the ones found in flexi sign)

P

If he/she is just giving you a .cdr then you need to hang out with a better class of Corel users.
Giving a printer a cdr file for production is about the same as getting a powerpoint ppt from a Government official.....

wayne k
guam

I don't think Corel users hang out together based on tclass.

 

[Terremoto]

But most young creAtives today are leaning photoshop, illustrator, and other creative suite programs.

I just cringe every time I receive one of those "young creAtives" production ready files. It means I have my work cut out for me! Far too many of the "young creAtives" assume that a sign shop will be outputting their artwork on a web offset printer and provide their artwork in the CMYK colour space or worse yet, some obscure Pantone colour in various percentages to give it a "pastel" feel.

And don't get me started on outlines that are nothing more than a line weight (not set to scale with the image/artwork) instead of a proper contour (or "offset" in Illy parlance). A very real problem when the artwork is done at a smaller scale and needs to be scaled up for production purposes and all because of the limited art board size in Illustrator.

Or how about various shapes set to the background colour that are dropped here and there to cover up something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

There are a few like member Wafels that have seen the light though. I've retrained a handful of Illustrator users over the years and not one that I know of has ever switched back to Illustrator after gaining proficiency in CorelDraw.

I use Corel for that.
I've been Illustrator user for many years before i got my hands on Corel, and never thought that I even would be using Corel, even hated it back in university and kept using illy instead.
This changed though when I got my current job, we have illy and Corel here and now I use Corel 99% of time, because it's more comfortable and faster to work with.
Using Illy only to open pdf saved from Mac, resave them and open in Corel Oh and for "cut after print" files for vinyl printed on agfa.
That's my opinion though.

I'll use Illustrator if I'm forced to but in the sign business I find CorelDraw is a much better fit. The limited art board size in Illustrator is just one of the multitude of reasons I would choose CorelDraw over Illustrator for sign work. With the superior colour management available in CorelDraw X6 and the preponderance of wide format digital printers in the modern sign shop I would suggest anyone using Illustrator for sign work really ought to give CorelDraw serious consideration. Don't be blinded by the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) spewing from the Adobe Fan Club. To each his/her own though I suppose.

Dan

 

[Rick]

Working in full size means squat to me, I still have to give city/permitting/engineers/architects/fabricators and installers scaled drawings.

As far as the software, if you need basic scale tools (and that fits most sign shop requirements), Corel is fine. Yeah Illustrator requires a 300.00 plug in, but it's better than Corel's scale tools (for my style of drafting) so Illustrator is my "preference"

Being a production monkey for a few years, It's just as easy to screw up a full size drawing as it is a scaled one, and one should always double check every drawing before hitting print, cut, rout or paint...

 

[Bobby H]

I've been using both CorelDRAW and Adobe Illustrator together in sign work for nearly 20 years. Both applications have their own strengths, weaknesses, bugs and handy unique features not found in their rival application. Being able to use the best features of both applications gives me more creative freedom.

It's also necessary for me to use both applications on a frequent basis since neither application is really all that friendly to files generated by the other. I get plenty of customer provided files made in either application. Some claim CorelDRAW can generate an Illustrator file good enough an Adobe user wouldn't tell the difference or vice versa. I beg to differ on that. Plenty of effects made by either application can be thrown off very badly when opened in the rival application. Some effects are application-dependent and cannot be exported. If I need an Illustrator version of a Corel generated piece of art, I must proof the art to see what "breaks" when it is opened in Illustrator. Same goes for moving Illustrator artwork into CorelDRAW.

I do a great deal of sign design work within CorelDRAW due to its much larger art board. BTW, I haven't been able to make layouts of 150' work well (start getting "object not on surface" warnings). Layouts up to 100' X 100' in size are do-able. At that level you're prone to get the "This zoom has exceeded the boundaries of the drawing space" warning. Most sign projects fit in the CorelDRAW art board at full size comfortably. The 227" X 227" limit in Adobe Illustrator (and InDesign) doesn't fit quite so much stuff. I end up working on things at 1/2 or 1/4 actual size, and make sure to have clear notes included in the layouts.

CorelDRAW is also very good for its object editing tool set. I can usually edit vector objects a lot faster in CorelDRAW than Illustrator. To get some of the same tools in Illustrator users are forced to buy plug-ins like CADtools. CorelDRAW has some unique effects not found in Illustrator, such as isometric 3D extrusion effects.

What I like about Illustrator: it is more precise with certain kinds of vector effects, like applying outline effects to shapes and open paths. The end results are often cleaner and more reliable than what CorelDRAW generates. Illustrator's color output for print is more reliable. Illustrator is vastly more integrated with Photoshop and other Adobe applications. I can paste Illustrator vector paths into Photoshop, Fireworks, After Effects, etc via AICB paths on the clipboard. Corel has never been able to do that.

I could go on and on with feature comparisons of what one app or the other has or lacks. Suffice it to say, I can't put up with running CorelDRAW exclusively or Illustrator exclusively. I won't do it.

I'll also say both have had their share of anger inspiring bugs and areas that need improvement. Illustrator still has a ways to go mend fences with angry former Freehand users (Adobe bought and then killed that rival vector app). It's annoying that every Illustrator release lately has been breaking third party plug-ins right and left. Corel has been goofing up things lately with CorelDRAW X6. I really HATE what they've done with type handling in the latest update (16.4.0.1280). Corel is throwing out half-baked updates just to introduce new features for "premium membership" subscribers. And they're cooking in new bugs while doing so.