how does the "little guy" compete

[Mosh]

Our shop is in the middle of town and is just over 9K square feet. (92'x102') our traffic count is an average of 3,200 vehicles passing per day.

 

[adkmaid]

BEEN DOING IT THIS WAY SINCE 1988!!! Must suck to make payments, I wouldn't know!
Stop being jealous of others that choose to live this way...out of debt! I know people with shops that have
$2,000-$3,000 in rent and payments every month. That IMO is ignorant business practice! I have NO payments of
any kind so I can charge less that typical morons make payments and pay rent!!!!

gotta agree with Mosh on this one have been doing this since 1972 and I have no "over head" so its not added into products thus lower prices....makes some mad but you become numb to being called a cut throat after a while.
one bit of advise i can add to the "little guy/girl" dont quit yer day job always keep one foot on the ground, until you are taking way too much time off to do your business consistantly. i have found that if you do good work, have good price and always always show up on time, everytime, wins the race.

 

[SignManiac]

Man I wish I was in your shoes Mosh. With no payments I would charge top dollar, as long as the work was good enough, and make twice as much money. Leaving money on the table is foolish if the only reason is to put some other schmuck out of business.

 

[Bigdawg]

The ignorant part was dropping your prices to below rock bottom just because you don't have the payments. And I have to agree.

 

[Mosh]

I like to charge what I would want to pay. Sorry it this rubs people the wrong way. My point is that I make the same profit margin and can charge a lower price to my customer since we have ALOT less overhead.

 

[Gino]

Ya know.... there's no point in trying to show someone like this.... the many faults of his thinking.

Let's all be grateful he's in an isolated part of the country and can't harm anyone but himself.

 

[Brandon708]

let's all be grateful he's in an isolated part of the country and can't harm anyone but himself.

 

[ontsigngirl]

thanks deaton - this thread got a little off track - I appreciate your input. I don't want to bury myself in debt - my goal really is to make a decent living doing something I like.
Although some of the public can be a pain - (worked as a waitress for 9 years) I think if you're good to them you'll get it back.

 

[UFB Fabrication]

The race to the bottom is paved with heart ache and leads down the one way path to the out house. Trying to be cheapest is a quick way to failure. The stench of that business model will be around when you are moving up from wally world greeter to bagger.

Good luck in the sign biz.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

thanks deaton - this thread got a little off track - I appreciate your input. I don't want to bury myself in debt - my goal really is to make a decent living doing something I like.
Although some of the public can be a pain - (worked as a waitress for 9 years) I think if you're good to them you'll get it back.

Most have been wonderful to deal with in my experience. There are some that want you to try everything under the sun and go, nope what about that or this.

Thankfully most of this is coming from email communication and not having someone breathing down my neck at the shop.

I have one customer that is like that, sweet as she can be, but wants to try everything at least once and maybe more before she can decide on something. Good thing is that she is a decent client as far as repeat business and she is also wanting me to take over her website upkeep(she was also tossing the idea of re-doing the whole thing) right after the New Year, so that's going to be something else I'll be getting into to. I might have to post about that after the New Year(shameless plug I know).

 

[binki]

I would turn it around and ask how the big guy stays open. We had someone come in and offer to do our work for us. He had a lot of equipment sitting idle and needed the work to keep open.

A bad economy is the best time to open. Rent/Lease amounts can be negotiated down pretty low. Around here $2-$4/sqft per month were common on retail space in a strip mall or shopping center. Now $1/sqft per month with 6 months or even a year of free rent (they give something like half rent for a year or two) are common. At the same time existing businesses are stuck with their high lease payments.

Pick a busy area and go for it. Have a plan, 3 years to build up your business. You need cash reserves to do it. It helps if you have a job that pays cash money to support your opening or a large cash reserve.

Don't short yourself. You need cash flow but you cannot work on a small margin. You need to have profits so working just to pay your lease payment at the end of the month is not the way to go.

Offer services that others don't. Look around and make sure you offer not only competing products but unique ones as well. Again, a business plan helps with this. Define your business and what you want to do.

Good luck. Now is the best time to open. You will not get another chance like this for years.

 

[dj_elite]

Mosh did you start out with no overhead? A lot of us didn't and had to get loans. I'm sure it wasn't a choice to be in debt. At least not for me. I keep my overhead low though, not debt free, just low debt!

 

[round man]

Ok first of all,if I may offer some advice here it would be to quit thinking about the competition and focus on your own business,..that is something you have control over and if you wish to be proactive about your own well being that is where you should focus your energies,and efforts. First of all study your budget and cash flow and know down to the penny what it will cost you to stay in business for a week ,day, month ,and a year. Then decide what you can reasonable want and or expect for and income during any 0f the aforementioned periods of time.Use this information for pricing in order to stay in business and do not worry about the competition that is a factor you cannot control. Try your best to price your work honestly(and profitable) and deliver the best service to your customers possible. Go the extra mile every chance you get and then make chances when you can to do so. Always provide the best possible product and design for your customers possible within the budget of the project at hand. Always try to continually improve upon this effort by learning new skills and new techniques, while honing the ones you already have to as near perfection as possible(in other words never quit learning about your trade). Don't wait for the customers to come to you,they ain't gonna line up at your door so you are going to have to go to them.In this process put your best foot, forward so to speak, and never promise anything you can't or don't know you can deliver.Market yourself diligently and continue to do so on a regular basis. Always be honest and up front with the customer and you'll never have to tell a lie to cover up one already told.Follow thru on every project and make sure the client is pleased on all efforts and products you have of delivered. Collect the money that should be discussed and arranged prior to any work taking place(this includes security deposits and collection terms upon delivery).Repeat all the aforemetioned suggestions on a daily basis for several years and or as long as possible and one day some new fellow will waste his or her time and energy on how they can compete with you and not focus on something they can actually control.

 

[James Burke]

Ok first of all,if I may offer some advice here it would be to quit thinking about the competition and focus on your own business,..that is something you have control over and if you wish to be proactive about your own well being that is where you should focus your energies,and efforts. First of all study your budget and cash flow and know down to the penny what it will cost you to stay in business for a week ,day, month ,and a year. Then decide what you can reasonable want and or expect for and income during any 0f the aforementioned periods of time.Use this information for pricing in order to stay in business and do not worry about the competition that is a factor you cannot control. Try your best to price your work honestly(and profitable) and deliver the best service to your customers possible. Go the extra mile every chance you get and then make chances when you can to do so. Always provide the best possible product and design for your customers possible within the budget of the project at hand. Always try to continually improve upon this effort by learning new skills and new techniques, while honing the ones you already have to as near perfection as possible(in other words never quit learning about your trade). Don't wait for the customers to come to you,they ain't gonna line up at your door so you are going to have to go to them.In this process put your best foot, forward so to speak, and never promise anything you can't or don't know you can deliver.Market yourself diligently and continue to do so on a regular basis. Always be honest and up front with the customer and you'll never have to tell a lie to cover up one already told.Follow thru on every project and make sure the client is pleased on all efforts and products you have of delivered. Collect the money that should be discussed and arranged prior to any work taking place(this includes security deposits and collection terms upon delivery).Repeat all the aforemetioned suggestions on a daily basis for several years and or as long as possible and one day some new fellow will waste his or her time and energy on how they can compete with you and not focus on something they can actually control.

Dang...that's nearly a Harvard MBA in one post.


JB

 

[iSign]

Dang...that's nearly a Harvard MBA in one post.

+2

 

[Mosh]

I live back in the wood you see, my wife and my kids and my dog and me.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I live back in the wood you see, my wife and my kids and my dog and me.

And that's about the only Hank Jr. song I actually like.

 

[wetgravy]

You also need big expensive machines:
4x8 CNC
Commercial sewing machine
Vinyl cutter
Maybe a welder
Metal fabrication tools
Maybe a sublimation printer
Heat press
Maybe an engraver (Laser? Rotary? Both?) for ADA work
Edge Beveler
Raster Braille System
Braille Translation Software
Maybe a screen press (graphics & flat stock, aparrel, or BOTH)
Screen storage Rack
Drying Racks
Exposure Unit
Washout Booth
Chemical Storage
Power Washer
Truck? Van? Lift Truck?

I agree with a lot of that list ... except for the above. screen printing is good to add to the list if you want to expand into that market (most of the sign shops i know who do that set up a "second company" .. basically they get their dba for screen printing and run it like a second business ... never the two connected fully. ... sadly, you can do without it. and most of the other machines are for specialty markets ... 95% of the companies out there don't need that stuff.


as long as you have a good shop set up for all the graphics fabrications (printers, laminators, etc) for signs and of course a good equipment setup for others (table saw, table router, and some good hand tools and know how ... )

the rest can be outsourced if you really need to as a start up ... just price accordingly.




and nothing beats good honest design skills.

 

[Techman]

I have in fact ran several shops out with my low pricing, then when they are gone

More ego driven statements.

No one goes out of business because they got run out by another using low prices. Anyone who believes that is living in disney's fantasy land.

The reason ppl go out of bizz is they do not have the skills it takes to stay in bizz or they do not have the capital. It has nothing to do with someone around them running rock bottom prices.

 

[wetgravy]

Ok first of all,if I may offer some advice here it would be to quit thinking about the competition and focus on your own business,..that is something you have control over and if you wish to be proactive about your own well being that is where you should focus your energies,and efforts. First of all study your budget and cash flow and know down to the penny what it will cost you to stay in business for a week ,day, month ,and a year. Then decide what you can reasonable want and or expect for and income during any 0f the aforementioned periods of time.Use this information for pricing in order to stay in business and do not worry about the competition that is a factor you cannot control. Try your best to price your work honestly(and profitable) and deliver the best service to your customers possible. Go the extra mile every chance you get and then make chances when you can to do so. Always provide the best possible product and design for your customers possible within the budget of the project at hand. Always try to continually improve upon this effort by learning new skills and new techniques, while honing the ones you already have to as near perfection as possible(in other words never quit learning about your trade). Don't wait for the customers to come to you,they ain't gonna line up at your door so you are going to have to go to them.In this process put your best foot, forward so to speak, and never promise anything you can't or don't know you can deliver.Market yourself diligently and continue to do so on a regular basis. Always be honest and up front with the customer and you'll never have to tell a lie to cover up one already told.Follow thru on every project and make sure the client is pleased on all efforts and products you have of delivered. Collect the money that should be discussed and arranged prior to any work taking place(this includes security deposits and collection terms upon delivery).Repeat all the aforemetioned suggestions on a daily basis for several years and or as long as possible and one day some new fellow will waste his or her time and energy on how they can compete with you and not focus on something they can actually control.

+1 on that.