How honest are you?

[Sticky Signs]

Wow, do any of you know what a douche bag is? I do.
Gregg, take a look in the mirror. Now you can say you know one thing for sure.

And did you really quote Stephen King? Really? Stephen King?

Maybe if you spent a little less time humping dingos and a little less time filling your brain with Stephen Kings' nonsense you could learn a thing or two. If I was you, I'd pull my head outta my A$$ and learn how to not be a giant douche.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Being a relative newcomer (1971 part time and 1983 full time), I will admit that I have attempted to control a brush and a pounce wheel without achieving a professional outcome. Instead I found that in the Bezier pen tool.

My clients liked my work well enough that I was able to use some of the profits to acquire a fair assortment of tools, fonts and programs to be able to create from scratch or duplicate existing designs in order to meet my client's needs professionally. I even made enough that I could afford to purchase a generator to provide electricity when my utility providers could not.

Along the way I have served as a beta tester and consultant for more than one sign making application; developed and published a program to identify unknown type styles; developed mechanical devices that added functionality to existing products; created and published 1000's of pieces of digital art; and nurtured this forum from tiny to the highest traffic sign industry website in the world. All the while making signs for my clients without the benefit of a brush or pounce wheel. Yet all the while respecting and admiring those who can use such tools to create and produce their work.

I believe in the cycle of learning:

First you are taught.
Then you teach others.
Then you teach others to teach others.

Each of us has our own approach, our own priorities, our own skill sets and our own values. Personally, I try very hard not to judge others while helping those who sincerely want to progress and are ready to do so.

So tell me Gregg ... what have you done today to improve the ability of your peers to make better signs?

 

[signgal]

I don't understand why it has to be one or the other... I didn't have the benefit of knowing anyone in the business or learning under my father (whom I'm sure would have rocked at signmaking had he had the fortune to discover it before he died to young). I didn't have the luxury of a mentor or teacher. Fell into the business and fell in love with it at the same time. I'm not a master but I'm not a laborer either. I spend entirely too much time admiring, studying and observing signs every where I go to be considered healthy. I read what I can when I can and try desperately to fit in ongoing education (in between raising teenage boys who haven't gotten a girl pregnant or ended up in jail) but I am certainly no master with only 12 yrs or so under my belt... nor am I hired help, just showing up to pump out another batch of signs for the day.

Don't label me, man! Don't box me in! I'm a signgal, dammit!

 

[Mike Paul]

OP knows where it's at?....



:ROFLMAO:

 

[Bigdawg]

If you were asking a non-confrontational question... maybe you shouldn't have been, well, so confrontational.

I happen to know what the majority of that list is, but it doesn't make me able to use some of them. Whoopee... you can handpaint - an art I happen to admire. A skill I happen to admire.

But the total lack of respect for that art or skill in those of us that use a computer is astonishing. I have been in the print/advertising industry since I was 16... cutting rubylith and zipatone to create color. You can tell me a CMYK mix and I can "see" it in my head. When your job won't print on them new-fangled fancy, dancy printers... it's people like me you come find. Those of us that have a foot in both worlds... and respect for both worlds.

I am no less a sign maker than you buddy.

 

[Joe Diaz]

I think the goal is to make a living doing what you love.... I know it is sometimes frustrating to see people open up another sign shop down the street with no clue on what they are doing, but I can't completely blame them for wanting to. It is a great job.

I've always tried to focus on how to make our business better and to not worry about everyone else. My thought is, if you have enough knowledge, enough experience, enough skill, and enough determination... the work will continue to roll in. So who really cares if other shops don't know every aspect of the industry. I know I don't.

There are a lot of things in this industry I don't know too much about. I used to work for a larger company that did larger lighted and electrical signs, but there is a lot about that part of the industry I don't know... I've never used a 3D router... I can't pinstripe like my dad... Or airbrush... I've only used smalts a few times.... I couldn't carve if my life depended on it... Or weld and create amazing sculptures like Dan Sawatzky. I can't create cartoons at the level of a John Deaton.

But you know what, I found my little niche and I love it. I could care less if anyone disapprover's of the fact that I don't know every aspect of this industry. I believe I know just enough and that will have to do for now.

 

[Dice]

How is Business Gregg?

 

[jiarby]

sounds like a cranky-a$$ that just got lowballed by a guy that has a printer and a computer, but not a sock full of chalk!

Glad to near that your skills are so well rounded, maybe you should consider leaving "down under" and moving to scandanavia and live in the frozen seed vault.

That way if there is ever an apocalypse we can thaw you out and start making signs again without electricity.

 

[JR's]

Signgal you ROCK!

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Insignia:I would NEVER talk down to someone that does not have the same focus.

So you agree that you will talk down to someone with a different focus (and are doing so currently)?

I know what every single thing in your list is or does. I can use them all. I'm a master at some, okay at some, a total newbie at some.I could survive indefinitely without electricity.

That said, I don't give a rat's ass about this industry beyond making a good product my customers demand, and making a paycheck. Regardless of whether you own the business or work at it, it's a job, period. Strip away all the BS and it's just a job. It's just a means to an end. Sure, I get excited when the new issue of Signcraft comes or a new print media is released that will make my job easier, and I try my hardest to learn as much as I can about this industry so I can be better. But at the end of the day, it's a job.

To "eat, breathe and sleep" the sign industry, frankly is silly and not productive. If you're obsessed with your job, your job becomes you, you lose your identity, you have no life. What's the point?

Gregg, I can hand paint, pinstripe, guild (slow size and fat thank you), use a fitch, use an overhead projector and a pounce wheel and pattern (hell I can even freehand a darn nice script without a pattern), I can hand carve high-density urethane, I can use magic sculpt, etc. etc.. But guess what? I don't do it. In case you've forgotten, we're in business, this isn't a hobby. Sure, I could do that stuff and if I really wanted to give up my entire life I could sell a good amount of it. But I print. All day. I make stickers and banners and foamcore signs.

Here's what you should have asked:

-Do you make a good paycheck?
-Are you able to support your family and feed your children?
-Are you able to put a significant amount of money aside for retirement?
-Are you able to invest in other avenues of income, such as real estate, stocks, etc?
-Are you able to leave work msot nights at a reasonable hour (like 6pm) and spend time doing the things in life that truly matter?
-Do you take weekends off?
-Do you get 4+ weeks of vacation per year?
-Are you able to buy yourself and family good health care?
-Are your taxes paid up?

Frankly, the people that eat, breathe and sleep the sign industry are the ones that should be talked down to. I'll respect the folks on here who run a successful BUSINESS, make a respectable income, have a healthy balanced LIFE, and eat, breathe and sleep reality (family, friends, home, retirement, hobbies).

 

[Circleville Signs]

This is a perfect example of the old platitude -

"It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

 

[Fitch]

Signburst: Just because somebody joined yesterday (11th post) does not mean they were only here yesterday. Prefr you did not refer to me as an a$$.

TCorn: I guess you did not understand so I will (with your permission )- overlook your inherent lack of knowledge.

Marlene: we are on the same page... but I DO know (in 2010 - not 1965) what a pounce pattern is and can make a LOT of money from a can of 1 Shot.

T3: Sorry to waste your minutes with my BS. Seems ... but according to you: First and foremost, my business is in the business of producing PRINT! That's a HUGE umbrella when you stop to think about it. I live, breathe and bleed PRINT... I started the "education process" in 1978 when I was 16 and set my first piece of hot lead type in high school. 32 years later, I am partner in a successful PRINT franchise. We do offset and digital printing encompassing everything from business cards to banners.

Hmm... seems like you are in the print business - nothing more. Not degrading it - just differentiating between the sign and print mediums.

JR: You are right. Each person has their "niche". My point is - that you seem to understand... having knowledge in one area allows you to apply it to others.

Red Ball... you are obviously a person of experience and I commend you (PS an OHP is an overhead projector)

Rick: Join RedBall... 10/10

 

[JR's]

Here's what you should have asked:

-Do you make a good paycheck?
-Are you able to support your family and feed your children?
-Are you able to put a significant amount of money aside for retirement?
-Are you able to invest in other avenues of income, such as real estate, stocks, etc?
-Are you able to leave work msot nights at a reasonable hour (like 6pm) and spend time doing the things in life that truly matter?
-Do you take weekends off?
-Do you get 4+ weeks of vacation per year?
-Are you able to buy yourself and family good health care?
-Are your taxes paid up?

Frankly, the people that eat, breathe and sleep the sign industry are the ones that should be talked down to. I'll respect the folks on here who run a successful BUSINESS, make a respectable income, have a healthy balanced LIFE, and eat, breathe and sleep reality (family, friends, home, retirement, hobbies).

 

[Bigdawg]

Gregg... are banners signs?

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Hmm... seems like you are in the print business - nothing more. Not degrading it - just differentiating between the sign and print mediums.

Sorry... no time to respond... I gotta go PRINT some SIGNS on VINYL!!! Oh, right, they're not really signs because I'm in the PRINT business, nothing more! Damn, my customer's gonna be pissed at me for not giving him real signs!!! Oh well, at least I'll still be able to pay my staff today, go home tonight, see my wife & dogs, plan a camping trip in my new trailer and enjoy the weekend! Thanks for the reality check insignia!!

 

[Letterbox Mike]

sounds like a cranky-a$$ that just got lowballed by a guy that has a printer and a computer, but not a sock full of chalk!

Glad to near that your skills are so well rounded, maybe you should consider leaving "down under" and moving to scandanavia and live in the frozen seed vault.

That way if there is ever an apocalypse we can thaw you out and start making signs again without electricity.

Dear lord that's funny.

 

[FatCat]

Like T3 my background was/is printing. I come from the offset world and have experience in:

-lithographic camera (PMT's, negatives/positives, exposing plates, etc.)
-flatbed and drum scanners
-mechanical stripping
-mechanical paste-up, (used a waxer - anybody remember those?)
-Set a little bit of lead type in school, but not much
-ran letterpress and offset presses
-know the difference between the processes involved in screen, letter, offset, gravure, flexographic, digital, digital offset and wide format printing.
-etc., etc., etc....

So I guess I'm more of a printer - not a sign maker?
(Maybe in your eyes, and a few others.)

So what?

I'm not going away and I have every bit as much right to be in this biz as you do.

*BTW - I have nothing but respect for the folks that know how to use a brush -and- do good work. I would love to know what you know, just to know it. However, most of my clients wouldn't pay for something done with a brush. I'm sure I could find a few, but in today's fast paced business world sometimes the bottom line is the bottom line.

 

[tcorn1965]

TCorn: I guess you did not understand so I will (with your permission )- overlook your inherent lack of knowledge.

You have my permission.

I will do the same (with your permission) overlook your inherent lack of respect of others and arrogance.

Terry

 

[Fitch]

To Si and Joe: BINGO!!! You get it.
I love your work, your history and your questioning... no matter the time you have been "in the game"

Fred: Love this:

First you are taught.
Then you teach others.
Then you teach others to teach others.

So tell me Gregg ... what have you done today to improve the ability of your peers to make better signs?

Fred today hopefully I have posted something that will pi$$$ 1000 people off and make one want to do better and learn what all those "things" are. You know... sometimes people sit on the side... don't always post. I do however apologise (as I did prior) if I come/came across as arrogant. NOT my intention. Seems those opposing are those I may have been politely referring to.

Dice: Whilst I can actually do those things I mentioned when needed, I am one of only three people in Australia specialising in a niche market. Business is good. $2000 per square metre means I don't really have many "tire kickers" and those that I deal with are not secretaries making enquiries on behalf of their bosses asking "if I gave you a Word file can you use that". OK I admit that DOES sound egotistical... but more a point of siphoning clients.

Insignia: You seem to be in a good place, and I applaud you for that. Maybe you missed my point about being PASSIONATE about the craft... but that's ok. My belief is that being passionate about something will make you the best at something and in your words ... "make a respectable income, have a healthy balanced LIFE, and eat, breathe and sleep reality (family, friends, home, retirement, hobbies). "

Circle... you may just be right.

 

[btropical.com]

Do you make a good paycheck?
-Are you able to support your family and feed your children?
-Are you able to put a significant amount of money aside for retirement?
-Are you able to invest in other avenues of income, such as real estate, stocks, etc?
-Are you able to leave work msot nights at a reasonable hour (like 6pm) and spend time doing the things in life that truly matter?
-Do you take weekends off?
-Do you get 4+ weeks of vacation per year?
-Are you able to buy yourself and family good health care?
-Are your taxes paid up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaUtOJKUBFs&feature=related