How long can you go?

[letterman7]

Apparently, about 9 years. My 1204 finally blew the head after all that time. I knew I was running on borrowed time when the 'lifetime head' started flashing last year. Finally lost the black channel this morning. In those 9 years, very little had been done to the machine - a Y motor (twice), a cable (I think), and pinch rollers. Waiting on the quote to have it refurbed...

 

[Solventinkjet]

As a tech I see 3 to 5 years as an average for head life expectancy. It seems to be a combination of proper maintenance and pure luck. The oldest working head I have seen was 13 years old in a Mutoh ValueJet and the guy just kept really good care of it and ran the printer every day.

 

[ikarasu]

How much are heads on your machine?

Our Seiko needed all 8 heads replaced. Well, 7, one was replaced a few months prior. The tech said they generally last 4-5 years. Sometimes way longer, but average is 4-5 years, so ours was nearing the end of life. We could get by using 2-3 of them, but in order to bring the printer back up to spec and print without banding, we'd need to replace all 7. We were quoted about 4K per head. Thats $32,000.... every 4-5 years? we asked if he was crazy... that's $6,400 a year for heads.

It's one of the reasons I hate Eco-solvent and prefer latex. I can buy a brand new Latex 570 for that price.

Are mutoh heads way cheaper? or do you guys pay a a ton of cash every 3-5 years? We ":Refreshed" our heads with some used ones, and it's working fine, but it's on borrowed time. Thinking of getting a latex... but I do like how solvent prints look better, when the heads are perfect.

 

[Solventinkjet]

How much are heads on your machine?

Our Seiko needed all 8 heads replaced. Well, 7, one was replaced a few months prior. The tech said they generally last 4-5 years. Sometimes way longer, but average is 4-5 years, so ours was nearing the end of life. We could get by using 2-3 of them, but in order to bring the printer back up to spec and print without banding, we'd need to replace all 7. We were quoted about 4K per head. Thats $32,000.... every 4-5 years? we asked if he was crazy... that's $6,400 a year for heads.

It's one of the reasons I hate Eco-solvent and prefer latex. I can buy a brand new Latex 570 for that price.

Are mutoh heads way cheaper? or do you guys pay a a ton of cash every 3-5 years? We ":Refreshed" our heads with some used ones, and it's working fine, but it's on borrowed time. Thinking of getting a latex... but I do like how solvent prints look better, when the heads are perfect.

Mutoh heads are about half that price. If you maintain the head, replace the maintenance items when recommended and avoid head strikes, you should get 5+ years out of a head. With latex the heads are much cheaper but you have to change them multiple times per year. I don't have access to any statistics but I collaborated with a Signs101 member a while back and we figured that in the long run, the costs of head replacement between the latex and solvent head comes out to almost the same with latex slightly more cost effective but not by much. So when you buy a solvent machine, you don't have to replace the head for on average 5 years but with latex you will be changing them multiple times per year from the start. That adds up over time.

 

[ikarasu]

Mutohs might be worth it then. I'm talking CAD funds too, btw. So our heads may be cheaper in USA Too. It could also be our heads are just expensiver in Canada due to demand.

But lets say our heads last 5 years.. $32,000 every 5 years is roughly $530 per month.

Heads for the Latex are $130, So we could replace 4 Heads per month. Theyre warrantied for 1 liter, but the expected average is 4 liters... Some people can double that, but lets go with average since thats what we're doing with the solvent.

So if you print under 16 liters of ink a month, latex would come out equal, or better. Even if you half it for the mutoh price, thats still 8 liters per month. Which We do do on occasion, and I'm sure some shops do every month... But I don't think most shops hit 8 liters per month.

Of course this isn't including anything else, cost of ink/maintenance, it's just a straight head to head replacement cost based on average. Not to mention the "Oh shit, the cheap banner just caused a headstrike" repairs... Doesn't happen often, but it does on occasion.

The thing I like about latex is if a head is going bad.. Whether its fuzzy text, misfiring nozzles causing banding... you just replace it and the machines back to perfect. At $2/4000 a head you try to hold off until it gets bad.. We went a month with minor banding, it annoyed the hell out of me, but wasn't my choice.

Again, not saying its cheaper! I know 5 years is "Average", OP just got 9 years and only has to replace 1 head. In his case, he comes out way, way cheaper than Latex.

 

[letterman7]

I got lucky. Even with the odd head strike and sporadic cleanings (where's that smudge coming from?!) this machine owes me nothing. But I don't need a 4 or 6 head machine, either - I just don't do that kind of volume. So I'm looking at leasing a Mutoh 1324. It's going to be a toss up between spending the money to change everything in the current machine or starting fresh with a warranty and service for a couple years. If I do my own maintenance and purchase all the stuff from VanderJ here, I still won't be that much (comparatively speaking) less than from leasing a new machine. Sucks when older printers are worth absolutely nothing in trade...

 

[d fleming]

I kept a seiko and two epsons going for ten years. Both gone now and don't do enough digital any more to justify new ones. Happier without them to be honest. Still, it was nice being able to squirt out anything I wanted right when I wanted it.

 

[equippaint]

How much are heads on your machine?

Our Seiko needed all 8 heads replaced. Well, 7, one was replaced a few months prior. The tech said they generally last 4-5 years. Sometimes way longer, but average is 4-5 years, so ours was nearing the end of life. We could get by using 2-3 of them, but in order to bring the printer back up to spec and print without banding, we'd need to replace all 7. We were quoted about 4K per head. Thats $32,000.... every 4-5 years? we asked if he was crazy... that's $6,400 a year for heads.

It's one of the reasons I hate Eco-solvent and prefer latex. I can buy a brand new Latex 570 for that price.

Are mutoh heads way cheaper? or do you guys pay a a ton of cash every 3-5 years? We ":Refreshed" our heads with some used ones, and it's working fine, but it's on borrowed time. Thinking of getting a latex... but I do like how solvent prints look better, when the heads are perfect.

You could at least compare apples to apples. Youre sitting here saying that you dont like your gulfstream because your cessna is cheaper to repair.

 

[ikarasu]

You could at least compare apples to apples. Youre sitting here saying that you dont like your gulfstream because your cessna is cheaper to repair.

I was comparing to the highest latex, well.. I suppose you could say the flatbed is higher end, but I wouldn't consider it equivalent.

The latex can print as fast and good quality as the Seiko, so not sure which is the Cessna? Unless you think latex is grainy / not as good prints as a solvent, and consider latex inferior or something.

 

[equippaint]

I was comparing to the highest latex, well.. I suppose you could say the flatbed is higher end, but I wouldn't consider it equivalent.

The latex can print as fast and good quality as the Seiko, so not sure which is the Cessna? Unless you think latex is grainy / not as good prints as a solvent, and consider latex inferior or something.

Come on now. Quit being intentionally misleading. You have as much experience with printers as anyone else and know just as well the difference between what you are trying to draw a parallel between.

 

[ikarasu]

I had a really, really long post written up, but I know we're already being offtopic, so I deleted it.. and heres a "semi long" one

TLDR; I consider Latex / solvent on equal footing. I wasn't trying to compare apples to oranges, or push towards one over the other unfairly. They both have their ups and downs. I consider the highest latex, equivalent to the highest solvent (Which I'm assuming the Seiko CP's are). The main, and pretty much only issue I have with solvents are the heads... We're looking to buy a new printer in the next 3-6 months, because spending $35,000 to replace the heads in this one doesn't make sense when you can get a brand new one for that price. You can even buy another Seiko for it. If we can find a solvent where the heads don't cost as much as a new printer does every 5-6 years, we'd consider it (Hence my question on how much the heads were). The differences I was comparing is solely based on maintenance costs over the years though, not which is better, as I believe each shop is different and while latex is better for some, solvent is better for others.

To be honest... I have a latex at home, we have a UV at work... which means solvent would be the smart choice for us. I'd love a machine that is user fixable though, I do a lot of our work on our FB500, I do some on our Seiko... but the head change is a complete pain. Without the head alignment tool it's nearly impossible unless you want to spend a week there. I've heard Mutohs aren't as complicated, so I've been looking into them. But if theres a chance at spending $2K per head every 5 years, it'll be a hard pill for the owner of our company to swallow, especially after our 35K Seiko bill scared him away from solvents already.

 

[chrisphilipps]

The heads that the current generation ValueJet printers is using are about $2,870 if purchased from Mutoh America. There are sources that have them for $600 to $800 less than that, including GRS. These prices are in US dollars. Most of the ValueJet series only has one head as well, the 1638X and 2638X being the exception in the solvent line (2 heads in each unit).

So your cost to replace them is drastically less than the Seiko Colorpainters. We were a Seiko dealer back when the Colorpainters we're first released and sold then for a couple of years until the ValueJets came out. We have sold over 450 of the various ValueJet models since then. Most people have very few issues with them. The ones that do have issues mostly wind up being related to lack of maintenance, bad environment conditions or abuse.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Pitzu]

I remember our first printer, a Mutoh Rockhopper I 46". We had a large order (a car fleet) that took us weeks of continuous print.
Every day, before going home, I loaded the media, printed as much as to fix it on the take-up and left it alone to print till morning.
All I had to do is to make sure it had enough ink. Next day, we had the prints ready to process. Now that is what I call a reliable printer.
Last year we bought an used Mutoh ValueJet 1614 and we were so pleased with the quality of the prints that we bought another one 3 months ago.
We also have a Chalenger FY-3206S printer. At first we had some problems with it, mostly ink related, constantly clogging the printheads. We changed the ink, and now is a very reliable printer.
It has Seiko SPT 510 35pl printheads running for 10+ years without problems. The only time we had to change 2 printheads was when we had some major head strikes with the media (banner and mesh mostly) because the carriage was set too low. We've raised the carriage a little, and never had a problem since.
I think the most important thing is to do the daily maintenance, avoid head strikes and have a good technical support. And, of course, a good quality ink can help a lot.

 

[tulsagraphics]

My Mutoh 1614 has been going strong since day one (purchased in 2008). Never had to replace anything except the CR motor (a few months ago). Print quality is stellar (I create new ICC profiles every year or two). Nozzle check is nearly perfect. The only thing this machine gets is new ink cartridges and regular cleanings (not even wipers or dampers). I print about 2-3k sq.ft. per month, so it doesn't see as much wear and tear that a bigger shop might have. Machine is only turned on when needed. Maybe I just got lucky, but I'm sold on Mutoh quality.