How long to wait before lamination?

[scarface]

I'm getting silvering when i lam with the BS but it goes away in a day. Using 210 and 3651

I usually wait about 10 mins for the prints to cool down at least.

 

[jasonx]

Once a 3m rep did something for us. A week before the seminar he printed an image on 3m vinyl. One lot he put straight into an air tight bag off the printer. The other he let outgas.

A week later in the class we opened the air tight bag. It stank like solvent. It felt like gum to apply.

The outgassed version was fine. These werent laminated.

Now if your laminating straight away where are the solvents going?

 

[bob]

Once a 3m rep did something for us. A week before the seminar he printed an image on 3m vinyl. One lot he put straight into an air tight bag off the printer. The other he let outgas.

A week later in the class we opened the air tight bag. It stank like solvent. It felt like gum to apply.

The outgassed version was fine. These werent laminated.

Now if your laminating straight away where are the solvents going?

An operational fallacy. It does nothing to establish the actual drying time it only serves to confirm that there is a drying time. The question is not whether there exists a drying time but how long is that time. Is it measured in minutes, hours, or days?

If a print is dry to the finger tip drag test, however long that takes*, then it's sufficiently dry to laminate.

*In my shop that would be typically anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes, depending on a host of factors.

**Apropos of nothing, the term 'outgassing' merely means evaporative drying as seen with volatile solvents, including water, as opposed to some sort of chemical action as seen with enamels and various process curable compounds.

 

[jasonx]

An operational fallacy. It does nothing to establish the actual drying time it only serves to confirm that there is a drying time. The question is not whether there exists a drying time but how long is that time. Is it measured in minutes, hours, or days?

If a print is dry to the finger tip drag test, however long that takes*, then it's sufficiently dry to laminate.

*In my shop that would be typically anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes, depending on a host of factors.

**Apropos of nothing, the term 'outgassing' merely means evaporative drying as seen with volatile solvents, including water, as opposed to some sort of chemical action as seen with enamels and various process curable compounds.

My point was bob that there are factors that affect the drying time. Such as air flow, environmental factors, ink coverage and so on. It was also to illustrate that you can influence the drying time both positively and negatively in terms of how you handle your finished prints. I wasn't arguing the fact there is a drying time.

Obviously stuffing a print in an air tight bag is an extreme example. But leaving your prints wound up tightly on a take up roll would be a similar situation.

My example wasn't a test to also determine the exact drying time for the prints down to the minute.

I'm pretty sure 3m in their literature talk about scratching the print and smelling it to determine if it has sufficient time to out gas.

 

[Rooster]

Depends on ink load and print conditions.

In a low humidity environment with minimal ink coverage I will laminate as soon as the ink feels dry to the touch. With heavy coverage and/or high humidity I will wait 12-24 hours.

A secondary benefit to waiting is that the media tends to no be so soft as it is when it comes straight off the printers and the solvents have softened the vinyl. The media sits flatter and it's easier to laminate when it's had a chance to sit for awhile.

 

[WrapperX]

kind of off topic but i see a decal that has laminate bigger then the decal, or atleast its clear around it, how do they do that cut it out then laminate it and cut again?

They do exactly as you say it. I have done a little bit of this, cut then laminate. Its not the most ideal and it does leave you exposed for failures.

However, I have printed images with two sets of cut reg marks, then cut out the first printed vinyl with a weed border inside the second regmarks. Weed out the areas then run it through the laminator and then useing the existing second regmarks used those to cut through the laminate. The backer of the vinyl is the same as the backer for the laminate. It only sticks to the vinyl.

Although it can be done, I don't suggest doing things regularily this way as it is labor intensive and does have risks of failure. But for limited productions and/or prototyping we did it and it actually worked out better then we expected. Just be sure if you're gonna produce things this way, up your prices to reflect the extra time and efforts that will go into it.

 

[MaxxGrafix]

just a word to the wise- especially with picky customers is make them pay the extra dollar for 3m cast laminates when using wrap. 3m will warranty materials within ranges of estimated lives if "properly" manufactured. meaning if you let it outgas, (but i agree with bob in that it doesn't really prove anything about the solvent- we don't live in an airtight world. vinyl is not one sided either.) laminate, then install properly. using oracal210 with ij180 is a decent combo and cost effective, but will void 3m and oracal warranties.

 

[MaxxGrafix]

kind of off topic but i see a decal that has laminate bigger then the decal, or atleast its clear around it, how do they do that cut it out then laminate it and cut again?

various reasons- venturesome people who print on non-digital calendared media then want long term use. cut, weed, weed border just like wrapper was talkin about then laminate with cast and re-plot.
-edge to edge color on materials not recommended for this use. curling can appear unless overcut with laminate. same process as before.

 

[B Snyder]

using oracal210 with ij180 is a decent combo and cost effective, but will void 3m and oracal warranties.

Are you sure you didn't mean Oracal 290?

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

1 reason you would want contour cut laminate large than the vinyl is floor graphics. It's recommended but I've done very high traffic shop floors without and have not had any problems even at more than double the life expectancy.