How to go about persuading owners to hire more people.

[jtinker]

Well, I started at my current job just over a year ago. It was a new sign shop with great equipment, great facilities and great pay. But, there was one big problem; I'm the only one working here. From sale to installation, I do it all by myself. We've landed some pretty sizable contracts over the year so I know we are doing well. Especially since there is only one employee; myself. I've brought the subject up a couple times before but it only ever seems to get brushed under the rug or put off to another time.

Don't get me wrong. I love what I do, I love working at the place, the management pretty much let me do and go where ever as long as the work is done on time but it is seriously burning me out. Since the work is getting done they dont see the need to get more people, no sales people, no more production staff and no installers. We are expanding with the bigger jobs that we get but the only thing getting bigger is the shop and the amount of equipment and material that we have. Its up to me to manager all of it and keep this place running.

I can't go out sick because the shop closes down if I do. I had to wait for a series of public holidays where I would only be out for 2 days to take my vacation. I don't want to leave but I need to make a compelling argument to get them to give me some help in this place.

 

[brycesteiner]

Have you thought about asking to buy the shop and managing it? You clearly have more vision for the shop than the owners. Maybe offer to buy it with the intention of putting in more sales and employees. That might be a wake-up call.

 

[rjssigns]

Miss a couple deadlines...

I'm serious. It was that way at my old job. Run people into the ground, start missing major drop dead dates, then maybe think about adding another body. Great fun.

 

[eahicks]

I was in that same boat years ago at the last place I worked. Did bring someone else in finally but they didn't stay very long. It was most frustrating, like you said, if I got sick, which was rare, or wanted vacation. I was given 2 weeks every year, but never got to take the time off!!
What you need to do is really look at it from their point of view...a new shop is probably knee deep in debt, with the equipment loans/leases, business loans, etc. Yes business may be good and you're getting paid, but there really might not be much left at the end of the month to consider a new person. I would just have a serious talk with them. If you're doing $30K - $40K a month in sales, and you're the only one there, you're Superman (like I was) and it's probably that fine line of needing someone else. If your shop is producing $50K and up, they're banking on all your hard work and yes, you'll burn out.
Call a meeting ASAP before you, and especially they, lose a good thing.

Meant to ask, speaking of sales numbers, what kind of sales you have been generating? Your interpretation of major amounts of work may differ than others....I threw the numbers out there I did as examples because I think that is fairly typical of a small sign shop. YMMV.

 

[Billct2]

Who sets the deadlines?
If it's the owners warn them that some of the jobs amy not get done, and then miss the deadline.
If it's the customers don't let them.
If it's you start being more realistic.
And as for time off, you should have a discussion with the owners about getting a schedule for time off and
then take the time. My employees have more time off than me and theirs is paid.
After that see how it goes and then you may be able to get some help.

 

[TimToad]

I was in that same boat years ago at the last place I worked. Did bring someone else in finally but they didn't stay very long. It was most frustrating, like you said, if I got sick, which was rare, or wanted vacation. I was given 2 weeks every year, but never got to take the time off!!
What you need to do is really look at it from their point of view...a new shop is probably knee deep in debt, with the equipment loans/leases, business loans, etc. Yes business may be good and you're getting paid, but there really might not be much left at the end of the month to consider a new person. I would just have a serious talk with them. If you're doing $30K - $40K a month in sales, and you're the only one there, you're Superman (like I was) and it's probably that fine line of needing someone else. If your shop is producing $50K and up, they're banking on all your hard work and yes, you'll burn out.
Call a meeting ASAP before you, and especially they, lose a good thing.

Meant to ask, speaking of sales numbers, what kind of sales you have been generating? Your interpretation of major amounts of work may differ than others....I threw the numbers out there I did as examples because I think that is fairly typical of a small sign shop. YMMV.

I'm sorry, but what size shop do you consider small? And how much in sales per employee do you think is typically generated?

Unless you are Superman, working 24 hours a day and making at least $8k per month, there is no way in hell a one person shop can do $30-40k in sales and get it all done. If a typical labor ratio of 20% wage to revenue generated is even close, my estimate of a pay rate for that kind of production is pretty close. I would love to hear from all the sign shop workers out there in a non-ownership position making $80k+ per year working in a shop grossing $350k revenue per employee.

 

[Rick]

There are 2 basic type of employers...

On that believes an employee is an asset...
(I would imagine if this were the case, you might
not be asking this question)

... the other believes an employee is a burden.
(which is why I have a job as a freelancer)

-------

Start subbing things out... like installs.
Arrange for the boss to deal with sales or
duties that take your time.

Once they see that there is a lot to do, maybe
they can see the value of another employee.

 

[Rick]

oH!, One more thing, is this sign shop a franchise or semi franchise shop?

There are companies who sell franchises where the idea is start a sign shop
by investing in their program and equipment, then hiring some experienced
sign person to run it.

If you are in that position, why aren't the owners involved? If they are not
planning on getting involved... I don't see this job as being good for your
career path.

One great thing about your job is... you have the chops to run your own shop.

 

[Gino]

Who is ordering all this new equipment ??
Who is making the shop bigger ??
Are you personally bringing in all the new clients or are they just walking in the door ??
Who does the surveys, specs out the jobs, orders all the substrates, vinyls, inks and all the other important supplies ??
Are you doing all the design work, fabrication and installations with absolutely no help, not even a relative ??


I seriously doubt you'll get anywhere telling the bosses what to do, because in this scenario, the machine does not appear to be broken, so no sense in fixing/changing anything. I would think it they are getting all this additional equipment, it must be at your request, so they are trying to make your job easier for you in addition to spending some money..... on you, therefore for themselves. Good business move. A scheduled meeting to discuss your inner needs might be called for, but if they are making it easy, perhaps anyone could step into your shoes and do the same thing. Be careful how you word things, or you might wake up a sleeping bear and it just could throw ya out with mistaken ideas for misled shortcomings.

 

[d fleming]

Quit. Then they'll find out you're doing the work of two people. JK:ROFLMAO:

 

[Techman]

The single biggest mistake a shop makes is not training the bench. The bench strength reserve training program is an expense that must be included in the shops fixed costs. We all know the shop cost is configured via the price of operating that shop. Insurance, rent etc. However most shops fail to include training of staff in their calculations.

Thus this very problem in this thread is all too common. No money to train help. And ne reserve help to cover growth.

For example..
At one time Dawn Donuts were individual shops. One day they got educated and formed a united program where each shop could tap into another for help to cover illnesses, vacations etc. That included cash for staff training and trouble shooting personnel. Dawn Donuts is no longer around because they were successful and profitable and merged with another group that became a national chain by another name.

 

[jtinker]

I was in that same boat years ago at the last place I worked. Did bring someone else in finally but they didn't stay very long. It was most frustrating, like you said, if I got sick, which was rare, or wanted vacation. I was given 2 weeks every year, but never got to take the time off!!
What you need to do is really look at it from their point of view...a new shop is probably knee deep in debt, with the equipment loans/leases, business loans, etc. Yes business may be good and you're getting paid, but there really might not be much left at the end of the month to consider a new person. I would just have a serious talk with them. If you're doing $30K - $40K a month in sales, and you're the only one there, you're Superman (like I was) and it's probably that fine line of needing someone else. If your shop is producing $50K and up, they're banking on all your hard work and yes, you'll burn out.
Call a meeting ASAP before you, and especially they, lose a good thing.

Meant to ask, speaking of sales numbers, what kind of sales you have been generating? Your interpretation of major amounts of work may differ than others....I threw the numbers out there I did as examples because I think that is fairly typical of a small sign shop. YMMV.

I'd say we pull in anywhere from 10-30k per month with spikes of 60 sometimes 100k depending on the amount of contracts we can weasel. But generally speaking its dry for a week or two then a couple 5k, 10k, 2k, 3k contracts come in when people realize they needed stuff and are in a jamb.

Who sets the deadlines?
If it's the owners warn them that some of the jobs amy not get done, and then miss the deadline.
If it's the customers don't let them.
If it's you start being more realistic.
And as for time off, you should have a discussion with the owners about getting a schedule for time off and
then take the time. My employees have more time off than me and theirs is paid.
After that see how it goes and then you may be able to get some help.

Owners set the deadlines, its usually something ridiculous that was said in the heat of negotiation to land the job. And I end up staying back until 10pm every night for a week or two. My deadlines are atleast 2/3 days for anything unless its really slow then I can do a 1 day thing. Which sounds good to most people. Often they get into meetings with sales execs and just blurt out <LOWER THAN COMPETITOR> price, time frame, etc and i get stuck with the bag. If I let them know the challenges then I get a smile and a 'your concern is duly noted, we still need it by <insert date here>.

oH!, One more thing, is this sign shop a franchise or semi franchise shop?

There are companies who sell franchises where the idea is start a sign shop
by investing in their program and equipment, then hiring some experienced
sign person to run it.

If you are in that position, why aren't the owners involved? If they are not
planning on getting involved... I don't see this job as being good for your
career path.

One great thing about your job is... you have the chops to run your own shop.

Its not a franchise but it works like a franchise. The owner is an investor, so he has many businesses; he does what he can and makes deals where he can for it but his presence is almost non existant at the location or in most of the important decisions like getting new equipment, inventory etc. I feel like I've won a battle when I get them to restock.

Who is ordering all this new equipment ??
Who is making the shop bigger ??
Are you personally bringing in all the new clients or are they just walking in the door ??
Who does the surveys, specs out the jobs, orders all the substrates, vinyls, inks and all the other important supplies ??
Are you doing all the design work, fabrication and installations with absolutely no help, not even a relative ??


I seriously doubt you'll get anywhere telling the bosses what to do, because in this scenario, the machine does not appear to be broken, so no sense in fixing/changing anything. I would think it they are getting all this additional equipment, it must be at your request, so they are trying to make your job easier for you in addition to spending some money..... on you, therefore for themselves. Good business move. A scheduled meeting to discuss your inner needs might be called for, but if they are making it easy, perhaps anyone could step into your shoes and do the same thing. Be careful how you word things, or you might wake up a sleeping bear and it just could throw ya out with mistaken ideas for misled shortcomings.

About 90% of our jobs are corporate, so we have to go out and do some sales / wine & dine.
As for the work being done in the store heres what happens
1. I get an email that says: get me a quote for xyz
2. I quote it
3. I design it
4. I make it
5. I install it

So its no help prettymuch. Just last week they needed 15 4x8 signs mounted on plywood then installed in two days. Three guys came to lift the stuff off the truck but once it was in the shop I had to do everything else by myself. This has gone on all year prettymuch, Back at my old job I was 155lbs. I have put on like 15lbs of muscle since I started from lugging around rolls and sheets of 12mm pvc / plywood everywhere by myself.

The single biggest mistake a shop makes is not training the bench. The bench strength reserve training program is an expense that must be included in the shops fixed costs. We all know the shop cost is configured via the price of operating that shop. Insurance, rent etc. However most shops fail to include training of staff in their calculations.

Thus this very problem in this thread is all too common. No money to train help. And ne reserve help to cover growth.

For example..
At one time Dawn Donuts were individual shops. One day they got educated and formed a united program where each shop could tap into another for help to cover illnesses, vacations etc. That included cash for staff training and trouble shooting personnel. Dawn Donuts is no longer around because they were successful and profitable and merged with another group that became a national chain by another name.

Idk, just about every other month we / I bring in jobs that can cover wages for myself & rent space for years. I think the frugal nature of seeing your pennies per square inch turn into thousands just gets a hold of people.

 

[Billct2]

Your numbers on sales are a little confusing, Are you saying as a 1 year old shop you are doing $250K plus in sales a year with one employee and an occasional extra hand (not including the time the owner spends on sales)?

 

[jtinker]

The sign industry is broken up on my little island. Either you have friends or you dont. If you do then you get contracts, if not then sad day for you; with that said the shop's owner is very well connected; like I said, most of our work is corporate- we hardly get in walk-ins or do 'regular customers' So when work comes in I am working nonstop into the night most of the time until it gets done. That aside, things cost much more over here because of our import taxes. So something that would cost $100 over here could be $500 by the time everything winds down, rates range from a minimum of 45% up to about 85% depending on what it is. There are some companies that get exemptions but its usually if you have connections from which ever political part is in power at the time. Another part of it is our design work, besides signage we do a great deal of design work where we incorperate signage into the overall design and then sell the whole contracting job as a package. So we do the interior design, get our team together of which I am a part of they remodel, we put up the signs and there you go. So a good chunk of that is purely digital artwork.

Another big chunk comes from outsourcing bulk flyers etc. You may have noticed that we are selling our cardstock printer and its for sale in the classifieds section if anyone wants to pick it up. Because in order for us to make a profit off of it we have to outsource to florida then ship over or its not worth doing.

The owner just brought in two contracts. 1 for 60k 4 x 8 flyers. We dont do them but we sold them. And Its like the old west here, if you can get away with it, get away with it. So we can get them for $0.05 and sell them for $0.90 then were going to do it. Plus like I said earlier, if you have an "IN" with the company, it doesnt matter how much it costs. Its not their money and they're helping a friend/getting kickbacks probably.

 

[CrAkD]

I need to hire the owner to send me work! Haha

 

[TimToad]

Now I'm really confused. So, if the "island" markup is double, triple, quadruple of what a job is worth here in the States, then one person could be "producing" $300k+ worth of work annually there, but is that REALLY only $100k+ worth of work in the eyes of a signmaker here in the U.S.?

The question I want to know is how expensive is it to live and work there? Is a person with your kind of dedication and stamina compensated adequately?

What does the bulk of the work consist of? Banners, electric signs, channel letters or digital readerboards? I think the kinds of work you are working like a maniac to keep going out the door is important to the discussion.

 

[jtinker]

Now I'm really confused. So, if the "island" markup is double, triple, quadruple of what a job is worth here in the States, then one person could be "producing" $300k+ worth of work annually there, but is that REALLY only $100k+ worth of work in the eyes of a signmaker here in the U.S.?

The question I want to know is how expensive is it to live and work there? Is a person with your kind of dedication and stamina compensated adequately?

What does the bulk of the work consist of? Banners, electric signs, channel letters or digital readerboards? I think the kinds of work you are working like a maniac to keep going out the door is important to the discussion.

Everything is crazy expensive here. Last I checked the cost of living was the same as central new york. Main city gas is about $6 a gallon, outer islands about $10-$14 per gallon.
Bulk work usually consists of mostly banners / print & cut signage along with interior/graphic designs. I make $500/wk base pay and get to keep 80% of the installation costs and 10% of the jobs I bring in so it usually ends up being around $500 if i do nothing and usually around 1000-2500/wk if I we are busy.