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how to install very tall lighted sign on posts HELP

Discussion in 'Installation Equipment & Techniques' started by mfrag531, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. mfrag531

    mfrag531 New Member

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    just got a request to hang a 10ft wide 5 ft tall double sided light up sign in between 6x6 steel coloumns customer wants bottom of sign to be 12ft off ground wondering best way to secure the sign and posts while concrete drys ? was going to mount post 4 foot into the ground with a 12" sono tube please any help would be appreaciated
     
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  2. Moze

    Moze Precision Sign Services

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    Sub it out to someone that knows what they're doing, would be my suggestion.

    I used to live in Fulton... Can't say I miss it.
     
  3. player

    player Major Contributor

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    You don't.

    Make the sign so each post bolts to the concrete after it has dried.
     
  4. MrSalumi

    MrSalumi Member

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    Sub it out and save someone from getting hurt by it falling. There is so much liability in this situation I would run from it.
     
  5. player

    player Major Contributor

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    I agree you need to partner. Someone with welding/fabrication experience as well as installation equipment (truck with crane). You need to understand the proper engineering of this structure.
     
  6. player

    player Major Contributor

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    ^ That will help with the install, but the engineering is the really crucial part. Hate to have a 10' electric box fall 12' onto a group of school kids...
     
  7. player

    player Major Contributor

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    Signtech extrusion systems used to have a manual that gave the basics for the engineering of the posts, concrete etc... If you want to get into electric boxes (why?) one way is to use Signtech or Signpro systems. The finished product is very good and they have some tech support as well.
     
  8. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    this ait one of those qucik "how do I" posts that can be answered quickly, you need to sub this out and sit and watch, you do not have to do everything
     
  9. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    When I get those type of requests I give them to my friends at another shop and take my cut after the job is done.

    They have certified welders, certified crane operators etc... Anything that goes below grade or up to 140' inthe air they get the job and I get to sleep well.
     
  10. DigiPrinter

    DigiPrinter Member

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    Sub it out to a qualified installation company. As others have said, there's a lot of liability involved with hanging signs and it sounds like you've never done this before. There's more to it than just common sense......
     
  11. Marlene

    Marlene Major Contributor

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    agree with all who have said this as this isn't a quick dig a hole and ta da done kind of question. if it were me, I'd build two J-bolt cages, pour concrete, embed the j-bolts and then weld a matched plate on the ends of both poles and bolt them at the base and that just the poles. then you have to have the mounts for the sign
     
  12. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    I'm sure by now, you know or at least understand, this is something you are not only NOT qualified to do, but probably not capable of doing or legally insured to do, let alone build.

    4' hole does not sound at all near what you'll need, especially in New York. More like a pad 2' or 3' wide by 5' deep for that size, up that high. You'll need an engineer to figure out wind sheer and other necessary items to meet code.
     
  13. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    we always set our posts at least 1-2 days before we affix the sign. ...unless it's MDO, which we'll do same day.

    also, 5x10 double-sided, illuminated, sign.... TWELVE FEET above ground?!? I sure hope you've got this thing engineered properly.
    did the city grant you a permit without drawings? not many cities would allow a sign this big to go up without an engineer's stamp of approval.
    4' sonotubes might not cut it, ground-level install maybe but you've got a heck of a lotta weight perched almost 20' up in the air.

    just sayin'....i'd hate to see another news story about a kid that gets squashed by a sign that tips-over in a light breeze.
    you've come to the right place for tips, but you may as well be a horse asking for a canteen.
     
  14. Steve G.

    Steve G. Member

    If you want to learn about the process, this book would be a good start.

    Sign Structures and Foundations
    http://www.amazon.com/Sign-Structures-Foundations-Designers-Estimators/dp/0911380655

    And FWIW, the proper process is:

    Design the structure using reference materials, such as a book like this, or the experience of a craftsman versed in this type of work.
    Complete Drawings with all pertinent specific info.
    Submit drawings to a Licensed Engineer for stamp of approval, (or revisions)

    Construct structure per drawings with periodic inspections per local code officer.
     
  15. d fleming

    d fleming Very Active Member

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    Without getting too specific I can tell you your guess at footer is miles off. Just recently set a one sided scoreboard, 3 pieces totaling 11x18 feet signage on two 8" steel poles. Bottom of sign 9 feet above grade. Footers were 4' wide x 7' deep concrete. Sign itself weighed a little over 400 lbs. Took crane, auger and bucket to do it safely. As someone else has said, pole set first, two days later, mount signs. This job took two months to get approved, permitted, inspected and finished.
     
  16. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    I did a sign a few years ago - ~10ft OAH - required 5'wide, 6'deep footer for the single 6" pole
     
  17. Kottwitz-Graphics

    Kottwitz-Graphics Very Active Member

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    I also have this one as well...


    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0911380655/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    When I was at Headrick Signs in Mississippi, I moved up into the role of engineer/drafting. We had an excell spread sheet that was designed around the engineering sign structures book, and was a plug info and get the correct numbers (and I have a copy of it on an old tape drive, but I have yet to find anyone that has the ability to get the files off it). It made it easy to make sure that what we were using worked, but in a lot of cases, we had to have stamped engineering drawings, but it made it nice to make all the calcuations, drop it on the proposed drawing, and get stamped approval.
     
  18. player

    player Major Contributor

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    I bought that book years ago. It was good to lend to my engineer so he wouldn't over spec the thing.

    One tip is as the sign gets larger, the wind shear stresses get exponentially larger.
     
  19. TXFB.INS

    TXFB.INS Very Active Member

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    +1

    with no hesitation, takes MANY hours of study and experience to install these correct.

    nothing worse than a faulty install
    http://www.signs101.com/forums/show...ls-down-kills-boy&highlight=airport+sign+kill
     
  20. mfrag531

    mfrag531 New Member

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    the sign is from signtronix my thoughts on how to hang it came straight from there install guide book says 6x6 poles on each side mounted 4ft deep with 12-14" diameter hole says that type of install is good for sign up to 15ft off ground
     
  21. letterman7

    letterman7 Very Active Member

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    You're just not listening, are you? Signtronix is selling you a sign and suggestions, not what should be done. Sub this out to someone with the know-how, equipment and most importantly, the engineering skills to put the sign up correctly, or be damn sure your insurance is up to date when the thing plummets to the ground with the winter winds.
     
  22. Moze

    Moze Precision Sign Services

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    Your numbers are off. You should really sub this out or defer to someone that knows what they're doing.
     
  23. Doc Savage

    Doc Savage Member

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    YOU can install it that way if you like but when it falls down you will be liable for any and all damages. If I were you I would hope that it does not kill anyone as you would have to live with that as well. I have run it through the program we use at work for doing rough calculations for initial submission to our engineer for approval. If you want to use a hole 12" in diameter you will need to dig them almost 7 foot deep. If you want to go with 4 foot deep holes then they need to be 3 foot square. Now these are simple calculations and if I submitted to my engineer he might accept them if the soil meets the basics for the standard used by the program. But about 1/3 the time he comes back with footer about 1/3 to 1/2 bigger than I initially proposed to him. I would suggest that you follow the advise of others here hire someone that knows what they are doing and use the time as a learning experience.
     
  24. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    can you post this installation guide from signtronix? curious
     
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