HP Barcodes unreadable, Improperly Printed by Flexi?

[culblaster]

Flexi Subscription Service
HP 115 Latex Printer (fw most recent) with Basic 54 Cutter (firmware updated to 39, most recent)

- The OPOS sensor cannot read HP barcode.
- Flexi isn't printing the HP barcode as is shows in Print Preview.

Flexi (in the preview window) shows the barcodes with one large horizontal line, with a gray background, with the code lines coming off perpendicular to the large horizontal line that have different lengths (as they presumably should)... But, when printed, it prints with two horizontal lines (at both end of the code lines, with all code lines going all the way from line to line, making a large stripped box), and no background color inside the box. No yellow, No gray.

Flexi only offers one option for "HP Barcode" in the cut settings in the production manager. Inside that is has OPOS and OPOS XY, which don't make any visual difference. There is no setting to alter the background or choose yellow/gray as I saw on some online tutorials for the software.

The OPOS cannot read the codes and I have tried to alter the settings that are available.
I have done a factory reset on cutter and material calibrations, trying to simplify the operation as much as possible to get it to work, it will not. (I bought this machine used and don't know if/when it ever worked). I have attempted with bare substrate, laminated, and used the default values for each just to get the OPOS to read a single barcode, no joy.

SIDENOTE: I'm also curious as to why, when you do the OPOS calibration on the cutter it asks for white, yellow, and black. But, when you use Flexi to print the cutter calibration chart is doesn't have a yellow sample. And, when you use HP Cutter Control software to access the cutter and look at the calibration values you only see OPOS level, gray, and black (not white, yellow, and black).

Cutter OPOS values
--------Bare Oracal 3651--- Laminated----------Default
Lvl----------70-------------------59------------------ 60
Gray--------21-------------------12-------------------30
Black------190-----------------195------------------150

 

[balstestrat]

Opos it's not a color sensor, it doesn't see yellow, only different shades of Grey.

You are getting the correct barcode. On the screen it's showing summa barcode that's wrong.

See this

HP/Summa Wide Format Cutter - Not Reading Barcode

After re-upping my Flexi license, the cutter (HP Wide Format, but from what I've been told, it's just a Summa with HP labelling) refuses to read the black/yellow barcode on vinyl media. Paper is read correctly, then when I press the barcode button, the cutter head just moves very slowly to left...

www.signs101.com

 

[P Wagner]

There have been two HP Latex 54 Basic Cutter models. The original uses the yellow background, and the newer Plus model does not. Make sure that you configured the proper cutter model in Production Manager (Latex 54 Basic Cutter or Latex 54 Basic Plus Cutter). The original model has dedicated buttons on the front panel, and the Plus Cutter has a touch screen. The original (non-Plus) cutter has a firmware setting to switch between the original barcode pattern (with the yellow background) and new pattern (black lines without a background).

 

[culblaster]

There have been two HP Latex 54 Basic Cutter models. The original uses the yellow background, and the newer Plus model does not. Make sure that you configured the proper cutter model in Production Manager (Latex 54 Basic Cutter or Latex 54 Basic Plus Cutter). The original model has dedicated buttons on the front panel, and the Plus Cutter has a touch screen. The original (non-Plus) cutter has a firmware setting to switch between the original barcode pattern (with the yellow background) and new pattern (black lines without a background).

Thank you.
SO
- Yes it is a Basic and NOT a plus and everything is set correctly in flexi.
- The cutter setting was set to yellow, I changed it to black
- reset the OPOS values to bare Oracal and used that same substrate

I kept getting errors.
Mostly it was "Unable to sense OPOS barcode" but I also got a couple "origin not set correctly".
I read up on the origin and OPOS settings and they are default, to OPOS Barcode (which as I understand it should nullify the origin setting, that that is set to the OPOS barcode too).

I have tried putting the head in various locations around the barcode... it mostly makes quick passes down and back and then sometimes follows with a slow scroll of the material but then fails. Other times it seems to be scrutinizing the barcode, very slowly scanning it, then moving off to the left and then failing, unable to sense.

I did the Calibration that required weeding the small square and it passed as far as I can tell. I have also cleaned the lens... big bag of nothing to show for it. Based on it reading values of materials it appears to be functioning.

 

[P Wagner]

I have tried putting the head in various locations around the barcode... it mostly makes quick passes down and back and then sometimes follows with a slow scroll of the material but then fails. Other times it seems to be scrutinizing the barcode, very slowly scanning it, then moving off to the left and then failing, unable to sense.

I did the Calibration that required weeding the small square and it passed as far as I can tell. I have also cleaned the lens... big bag of nothing to show for it. Based on it reading values of materials it appears to be functioning.

I would suggest testing using non-laminated prints first.

The start position needs to be with the tool located in the white space between the barcode and the edge of the media, directly in front of the forward barcode (as loaded), and not directly over the barcode or the registration mark. If the barcode is successfully read, the screen will display a 10-digit code for a few seconds. Make sure that the Production Manager is running, and that the Barcode Server is set to 'on' (status of the server is visible on the bottom status bar).

 

[cornholio]

Be sure, the sensor touches the vinyl. I often saw, that the sensor was off it's "hinge", (a set screw)
If that happens, Opos doesn't work correctly.

 

[balstestrat]

Make sure all your marks are well inside the pinch wheels.
And point the knife well below the barcode and let it search upwards.

 

[culblaster]

- I have not been using any laminated material in these efforts
- Server in Flexi is on and is displaying the same fail messages as the cutter is saying, so they are communicating. I have been loading in a print and have been trying to just get the machine to read the barcode locally (not hooked to Flexi). Same failures as when I do have it hooked to flexi. I have tried both the local barcode button and initiating the read from Flexi. It generally zips down the barcode, zips back, then starts slowly scrolling the material to nearly the end, then stops and errors on "Unable to Sense OPOS Barcode..."
- I have tried every possible starting position, several times as described, all around in the white space to the right of the barcode. The material is loaded top in first from the back of the unit... as if it were a patient on a table looking up and I was the surgeon at the head of the table.
- The sensor is held properly in the carriage and snaps down on top of the material for reads, it rides nicely along the surface of the material
- I have 3 wheels and this is 54" material so outer two are at the outermost triangle marks and the center is places just to the right of center at a mark

No. Flippin. Joy.

 

[Joe House]

Can you post a picture of the loaded media before you send the barcode and a picture of the plotter when you position the cutting head to read the barcode? If the plotter passed the calibration, it should do this just fine.

 

[culblaster]

Partial Victory - Root Cause, Human Error.

Other than the actual settings and parameters as discussed in this thread that needed preening - I was not setting the tool head in the right place to read the barcode. When I did this, it read the barcode with no issues and displayed a large number on the cutter screen as it should. (My new problems now start after that). The correct placement is about 1.5 inches "below" the barcode, roughly centered on the barcode. Below meaning that you roll the material toward the back of the cutter so that you are in the excess material "above" your printed images. (But apparently you can also load it the other way so that you are starting at your image bottom, and you would then be setting it "below" your images).

Now, I need to understand the workflow between Flexi and my cutter because after I read the barcode it just looks at me, and I look at it, and it continues to look at me, and I continue to look at it.... It doesn't go on to automatically read the 4 "corner" registrations marks and get to work, as apparently it should.

Currently, when I read the barcode via the machine it just displays the number and we engage in an befuddled armistice. When i do it from Flexi we go into a prompted dance around the "marks" where neither I, not it, knows which one to look at, nor which one is next, nor when we are done. The instructional video I found from SAI just breezes over this part of the operation as if "and there you have it, it goes automatically".

 

[balstestrat]

I did tell you tho. Maybe next time I draw a picture. You stand in front of the cutter... barcode comes out.. set the knife well below the barcode. I think it's logical.

Anyway now make sure you have the barcode server running in flexi. You can restart both flexi and cutter then let the cutter read the barcode.
Don't have any other software open that could connect to cutter like Cutter control.

 

[culblaster]

I did tell you tho. Maybe next time I draw a picture. You stand in front of the cutter... barcode comes out.. set the knife well below the barcode. I think it's logical.

Anyway now make sure you have the barcode server running in flexi. You can restart both flexi and cutter then let the cutter read the barcode.
Don't have any other software open that could connect to cutter like Cutter control.

Indeed you did. N00b here, some specifics lost in translation about "below" relative to the print....

So - barcode server is running and displays what cutter displays.

In current operation here is the trouble...
I load the machine with the printed job, with the cut job sitting in HOLD on the Production manager. Whether I initiate read of the barcode from the cutter or Flexi, (and now I can have it read it by setting the head properly)... It reads the code and it either then
A. prompts to "set tool above mark"
OR
B. jumps over and attempts to "read" the first mark and then prompts (because I'm guessing it fails?) to "set tool above mark"
.... and we doom loop this

- which mark?,
-was that a bad read on the mark you just looked at?
- why aren't you doing this automatically since
OPOS mode (Alignment Mode) is set to OPOS barcode and
OPOS origin is set to OPOS Mark (which doesn't matter due to alignment mode set to OPOS barcode ... per the instruction manual pg23\24?

 

[balstestrat]

First mark is the closest to barcode.. on the screen side.
Try to blow the OPOS with air, maybe there's some crap.
Do a OPOS calibration on black vinyl.

If it still does that, take a video.

It really shouldn't be more complex than this.

 

[culblaster]

Did cleanings and recals, same exact behavior. Per the video, just after it reads the code and then goes to read the first mark... it basically can't. But I know it can read the barcode correctly.
SO I have the failure down to just one misbehavior.

- It can read a barcode properly (the number displayed matches the number printed).(This can be done at the unit with onboard buttons... after it reads and displays barcode it does nothing).
- You tell it through flexi to read the barcode and it prompts you to set the head to read the barcode, you do that, it reads the barcode.
- Then it looks at the first registration mark and for a bout 6-8 seconds... then pauses, telling you to place the tool above the mark... which it already is. You hit enter/play and it searches a bit in a tight pattern, finds the mark, does it's 6-8 seconds of reading, then pauses and prompts you to do the same thing again. You can reposition the tool above, below, to the side, etc... too close to the barcode and you risk it trying to read that as the mark again.... it will try and read that, scrutinizing it, then pause and give you the same prompt again in a doom loop. (I did it 6 times in a row to see if it was just quirky and would get on with the job, it did not).

It can read the barcode fine, it communicates properly, it calibrates fine, but after it reads the barcode it doesn't seem to be able to recognize the first registration mark.

 

[culblaster]

So I might have found an issue...

When you look through the menu on the cutter, Alignment mode is set as OPOS Barcode... but if you look at the mode in HP Cutter Control, it shows it is set to OPOS XY. I think if it is in OPOS XY - it would trigger the unit to start looking for marks and lines to align after reading the barcode... wouldn't it?

Regardless... it appears the unit sets itself back to OPOS XY on the HP Cutter Control software even after you reset it to OPOS barcode via the HP CC (even though it temporarliy shows its in barcode mode after you set it). The Cutter menu shows it's in OPOS Barcode mode no matter what.

 

[balstestrat]

Just concentrate on why it doesn't find the first mark. You did that material calibration maybe consider rechecking it.
And how large are your marks? Maybe make them bigger so it's easier to find.

 

[cornholio]

You can print the opostestv3.pdf (it's in the testfiles directory in HP cutter control) on a desktop printer, then send the pit file to the cutter. If this works, there could be a bug in flexi.
Sometimes the offset is wrongly registered. If you do the Opos calibration two or three times, it can help. (You can monitor the values in cutter control service mode)

 

[culblaster]

Media and OPOS Recals completed, came out very similar to earlier values.
Same exact behavior... I even witnessed it pull from Flexi the cut job that was holding after it read the barcode. Then on the the first mark and fail.

I checked the machine alignment mode before I started to ensure it was set to OPOS Barcode, it was.
When I checked it on HP Cutter Control it reported it was set to FORCE OPOS XY
After the failed read I checked it again on the machine and it was now set to OPOS XY !!??
Immediate check the alignment mode setting on HP Cutter Control... it's in OPOS Barcode !!??

I'm going to do Another factory default reset, and one more set of calibrations, and that's probably it.

 

[culblaster]

Just concentrate on why it doesn't find the first mark. You did that material calibration maybe consider rechecking it.
And how large are your marks? Maybe make them bigger so it's easier to find.

I printed a new print/cut with larger registration marks (Flexi allows up to ~0.39 inches), and they came out the same as the minimum size setting!!
I have a service call with Moe tomorrow to basically reset my software (which I'm not terribly hopeful of). I also explained the other issues with the HP Barcode (improper print preview display). We'll see where this goes.

 

[culblaster]

I am closing this thread out (on my behalf) as I'm looking to another area as the problem. The root cause of my issue appears to live in the cutter. I upgraded the firmware to md9985_039 before all this happened and that may be an issue so I am now going to look for a previous version of the firmware (_034 or _035) and roll it back to see if that will work.

Long story short, as of right now, doesn't look like Flexi was printing the wrong barcode (though it looks wrong in print preview, it should just be a black/white barcode, not black/gray as shown).

Also, I did find a confirmed bug in their software which they are aware of an are presumably going to fix, that is, that you can change the size of the registration marks in your print/cut job in Flexi, and print preview will show them as larger, but they will not print larger.