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HP FB550 - Ink peeling at edges on ACM signs after only 1 year...

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MarkH42

New Member
We took delivery of a new HP550 flatbed printer in December 2018 and were in full production with it a month later. We did a bunch of 24" x 24" ACM signs for a customer in January of 2019. They were black, full bleed signs and we laminated them with a callendered intermediate laminate (GBC Professional 1064 WF cold press laminator). These are outside signs and they are starting to peel at the edges, with the laminate AND ink lifting off, leaving the white ACM. To be clear, the problem is the ink adhering to the ACM, NOT the laminate adhering to the ink.

We have had LOT of trouble printing on coroplast with this machine, but I'm surprised at the trouble we are having with ACM. We are considering beginning to wrap the laminate around the edges rather than trimming to the edge. Is there another technique we should consider to prevent this? Is there something in the cleaning and maintenance that we may not be doing properly? This machine is very fast and convenient, but if the ink starts peeling this soon, we have a huge problem. I appreciate any input you have!
 
Christian @ 2CT Media

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
What was said above is the truth. Your laminate is shrinking, that shrink is more powerful than you ink adhesion so it is lifting the ink off the surface.

I would use an adhesion promoter or switch to a 3rd party ink with more bite.
 
R

RPM

New Member
Is the laminate you are using meant to be used on UV inks? We have been using Orafol 215DU designed for lamination over UV products. Regular lams can have an adhesion issue on UV ink.
 
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Superior_Adam

New Member
We offer outdoor signs 2 ways. Direct UV print and then printing vinyl laminated and applied. If they are wanting longer life out of the sign charge more and print the vinyl. A sign direct printed should give you 2-3 years no problem without lamination depending on exposure to elements. I have sings up that are 4 years old and still look pretty good.
 
MikePro

MikePro

New Member
plenty of posts here from people with same issue
its either the substrate not being UV printable, or not primed properly, the ink is expired/old, OR you cut the panels too soon, as ink adhesion gets stronger over the 24hrs after printing.

HP FB550 manual can be found online. steps seem pretty detailed between media types.
 
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thomlov

New Member
Or try another brand of ACM, the coating are different and gives different results with the UV ink.
We have direct printed ACM with polymeric laminate last 7-10 years outside.
But we also had batches where the ink almost falls off by itself.

Also make sure you use ACM with matte surface.
 
danno

danno

New Member
We had an issue with ACM on our 550. The ink would flake off. Look for a digital receptive ACM. It solved our adhesion issues. I also agree that a long term sign should be vinyl with laminate. The 550 ink is only a 2-4 year ink at best outdoors.
 
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iPrintStuff

Prints stuff
Your direct print ink will not shrink. The calendared laminate will. Naturally this will pull at the ink and you’ll either end up with delamination or if the laminate is strongly adhered to the ink, it’ll all come off. Which I’m guessing is what’s happening here.

You can usually expect ~3mm shrinkage minimum with calendared. My best guess would be that the laminate is literally pulling the ink off.
 
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pkeshtgani

New Member
You should be getting the best adhesion on ACP compared to all the plastic substrates My questions are

1. Are these sheets meant to be printed on?
2. Did it come with liner?
3. Did you clean the sheet with 99.99% alcohol prior to printing?
4. How did you wait before cutting the sheets?
5. How did you cut them? Knife? Or Router?

Also there are lots of talk about bad batches of black and magenta hp inks. I wonder if you have it too?
 
Troy Lesher

Troy Lesher

Merchant Member
you have two dynamics working here, as several have already mentioned, your likely using a calendared laminate which does shrink as it ages especially outdoors and has surprisingly aggressive pull as it does.. the second is as a general rule UV ink likes itself and adhesives better than it likes no-porous surfaces, that's why adhesion to these types of surfaces has long been a challenge for the vast majority of inks. So for these outdoor applications, change to a CAST overlam, and also consider a pre treat adhesion promoter for your substrate . with you HP, you cannot change your inkset to a 3rd party without voiding warranty and such. for future reference, check out the video of our inkset for our TruFire printers we produce here in the states. Keep us in mind when your ready to upgrade or add to your printer fleet.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/48yse0p7nhq4hgd/Coroplast ink adhesion test.mp4?dl=0
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Troy Lesher said:
you have two dynamics working here, as several have already mentioned, your likely using a calendared laminate which does shrink as it ages especially outdoors and has surprisingly aggressive pull as it does.. the second is as a general rule UV ink likes itself and adhesives better than it likes no-porous surfaces, that's why adhesion to these types of surfaces has long been a challenge for the vast majority of inks. So for these outdoor applications, change to a CAST overlam, and also consider a pre treat adhesion promoter for your substrate . with you HP, you cannot change your inkset to a 3rd party without voiding warranty and such. for future reference, check out the video of our inkset for our TruFire printers we produce here in the states. Keep us in mind when your ready to upgrade or add to your printer fleet.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/48yse0p7nkkhq4hgd/Coroplast ink adhesion test.mp4?dl=0
Click to expand...

You're starting to do this all over the place and you don't have a Merchant Membership. Why don't you look into that and stop hawking your wares without the proper membership ??
 
Troy Lesher

Troy Lesher

Merchant Member
Gino said:
You're starting to do this all over the place and you don't have a Merchant Membership. Why don't you look into that and stop hawking your wares without the proper membership ??
Click to expand...
again, I do have a merchant membership.... why can you not see it?
 
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