HP L25500 & Onyx x10 problems

[RobbyMac]

We recently picked up this 60" HP printer, and our distributor recommended Onyx.

So far we've had alot of problems, and everyone we've talked to seems to be stumped. Has anyone else had these problems or have possible solutions?

1) About half the time a print will end up negative image (sorta). Whites print black, and all other colors have a tint of black added to them. This occurs whether we print directly our of an application, or through pre-flight/rip. It appears to happen only with vector art. That is to say we have not experienced it happening when opening a .tif or .jpg through pre-flight.

2) Lately we're experiencing problems with the print being Mirrored. THis has occured with both raster files and vector files. Whether printing directly from an app, or opening in pre-flight/rip.

3) Today we experienced BOTH issues in the same print. We tried re-ripping, printing, etc... we eventually got it to print correctly by Exporting out as a tiff, and running it through LAYOUT.

4) Our distributor has told us we can print within roughly .2" of the edge of the material. If we size artwork to the maximum width available in Onyx, preflight will rip and send to the printer, but then after it gets to the printer, the printer spits back that the media is too narrow for the print. We've tried quite a few profiles, and it's fairly consistent... exactly how close to the edge can one print with this machine?

We currently run a mimaki jv-3 with rasterlink pro, and an old vutek 2360 using colorburst. When this printer works, it's really nice. But it seems to work correctly only about 1/2 the time. The problems we're experienceing with this new printer and rip software is like nothing we've run into before, and it's making us quite nervous to take on any large job at this stage for fear that we might not be able to complete it, or lose our butt on material because of the prints we're getting out of it...
HELP!?

Edit: Forgot to add we do most of our printing through app using either Illustrator CS-3 or Coreldraw X13. Errors occur using either one. Onyx, as mentioned in the title is X10

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

Just for ha ha's have you tried rasterizing the EPS files in Photoshop saving as Tiffs and ripping the Tiffs?

 

[BigfishDM]

http://hpl25500users.ning.com/

This is a user group for L25500 users, they might be able to help also.

 

[RobbyMac]

I've not done a test specifically with photoshop. but did something similar.
Today I had a simple job, 2 files that consisted of nametags for a convention, printing on hp paper.
Setup in corel, and printed directly from corel, the 1st print was negative type image (black instead of white).
The 2nd print was negative and mirrored. I canceled and exported the file out as an .eps postscript1, opened it via preflight, and it printed mirrored and negative.
Next I exported out from corel as a 600 dpi .jpg with 0 compression. I opened it via preflight, and it printed mirrored, but at least it had the white background and not black this time.
Finally, I opened the JPG in the Onyx Layout Tool, and printed from it. it worked. So it took me about an hour of screwing around trying to get a simple 40" x 30" print done. Not very profitable.

Rasterizing is ok... but it means we need to keep a 2nd set of files since our build files need saving so they can be editted.
Rasterizing also means we wind up with much larger art files when we're working with 53' transporters or banners... vs. much smaller file sizes if they're in their native vector format.

Ideally, I like to eliminate chance of error while exporting files (say we simply export out as raster for print temporarily, then delete the raster file once complete). Paperwork for profiles, materials, job info can get clunky if we need to start adding export settings along with everything else.

I should mentione that we've checked all of the obvious MIRROR/NEGATIVE settings in the applications, printer settings, and rip settings that might cause such behavior. It should also be mentioned that we can print a file multiple times, using the same method, and wind up with different results. I'm just really frustrated and hoping it's some oddball setting in the rip or printer thats affecting us. I find no similar behavior reported via google searches... I don't really think it's the printer as much as I fear it is the rip software.
I will check out the usergroup.
I was hoping my first posts would be less helpless here.

 

[Typestries]

^^Good tip Mike, but what a PITA if that's the fix!

I'm running mine on flexiprint 10. just this week we discussed switching to onyx since all of our other machines are onyx, you just made my mind up, hopefully they work out the kinks.

I can say pretty certainly it's the RIP not the printer, but have you had the folks you bought it from come in and run it off their laptop and print the same exact files?

Has onyx been any help?

 

[Letterbox Mike]

I don't own that printer, but just throwing this out there... If I'm understanding you, you're able to print directly from Corel, bypassing any RIP software (I assume this is like other HPs and has a postscript RIP built in). If that's the case and you're getting the same issue whether printed through a RIP or direct from a design program, it seems to me that that right there isolates the problem to the printer and not software. Or am I off base?

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

^^Good tip Mike, but what a PITA if that's the fix!

Disagree.. files in a rip are rasterized when sent to printer from the rip software to output device.

Tiffs or any raster file process 5 times faster when ripped than a vector EPS that the rip has to rasterize in order to send to printer. A pre rasterized file processes much faster.

Not sure about flexi or even onyx 10 as for we use older versions of ONYX and any new rip needed is Caldera hands down..Caldera is leaps and bounds better than any other rip. Easy to use, great interface, spot colors on point(with right profiles) and way better processing speed from Linux OS vs.MS..

I also do not have any experience with Flexi.

I do have experience with tons of files ripped every day to output devices and workflow.I know if shit bombs and takes for ever as an vector EPS then rasterize it!!

As far as a 53 foot trailer first it should be no larger than 80 dpi to print as well as any other grand format prints that need much less..

I also may be spoiled by my pre press dept. after 15 years of them just making files work?

However I can tell you Caldera Grand Rip is the best for any and all shops...

 

[jens]

We run a xl600 and an l25500 on caldera and no problems !
In the past we had onyx productionhouse... but it had to many errors and transparancy problems...

 

[MachServTech]

If you are wondering if you have image quality problems and dont know if the problem is hardware or software follow these steps:

1. Print tests directly from the L25500 firmware, if they print with no artifact then you can rule out the printer.

2. Print the Onyx test files out of the Onyx/Samples folder (Turn off ICC Profiles). Test another canned profile with the canned images. Then send the canned image through the profile you were using, if it is artifacted then the profile you were using is corrupted.

I have been working with Onyx for several years and have not come across this issue. I am currently running an L25500 using X10 and have no issues.

PM me if you need further help.

 

[RobbyMac]

I will try the tests... difficult with jobs having to go out, but I will get to them.

re: Profiles: This issue is occurring across 3 different profiles we've used so far. 2 supplied with onyx (banner material, and hp aqueos), and 1 obtained from Avery (1005 ez)

re: earlier comment: When we print 'directly' out of corel or illustrator, it sends a file to/through the onyx rip queue. It's not printing directly to the printer from the design app.

 

[RobbyMac]

Our Distributor & Onyx had us wipe and re-install x10. Then update firmware on the hp.
It's still doing it. We're trying to get a tech out to test the system because at this point we are at a loss.

 

[MachServTech]

The only time I have had image reversal issues is when I built a profile and the lookup table (final set of swatches) was corrupted. This caused a major reversal and looks like a weird negative image in some places.

Has anyone has been fooling around with your profiles?

 

[silversurfer]

We are running Onyx with a 25500 without problems as well.

When you get the mirroring/negative thing happening, are you seeing it in Preflight? Or does the job preview fine and then print wrong?

We only use PDF files for input to X10. It's the recommended workflow from Onyx. Have you tried PDFs'?

 

[RobbyMac]

The previews in preflight appear correct.
I'm not the full time operator for the machine, but it seems intermittent on the previews if we choose the file in the rip queue, or the printer. (It shows the preview on the right side if either are selected). Sometimes it previews, other times it does not. We've noticed the problem occurring whether the preview displays or not (not dependent on preview) as that was the first thing we'd check when we noticed this problem.

Apparantly, both Onyx and our distributor are going to schedule a conference call with us. I'd rather someone get their butt over here to figure it out.

This morning, the operator ripped a file and it mirror printed. He then dragged the rip file back up into queue without re-processing, and it printed correctly. This is just weird now.

 

[MachServTech]

Post pictures of both the defected print and the correct one.

 

[RobbyMac]

OK. Forgive me as the bad print had to be pulled from the trash so its a bit wrinkled. He had 2 rips that he did... one was sets of stripes (nested in corel), and one was the indycar logo.
The first time he tried printing both, they mirrored.
He then dragged one of the files back into queue (without reprocessing) and it printed correctly. So he then did it with the other file and it also worked.

 

[MachServTech]

Hmmm..... I dont think it is a printer issue, unless you have noticed your alignment or nozzle tests printing mirrored.

Have you spoken with Onyx directly about this?

 

[RobbyMac]

Our Operator has been in discussions with both Onyx and our distributor. I use the machine also, but my role is primarily large rips that require tiling. To date we havent trusted the output to attempt a large print. So I've had a limited role in troubleshooting (while I am still trying to get caught up with jobs on our old 2360). I've been told we're to have a conference call involving Onyx and out distributor... just waiting for that to happen.

From their comments so far, and everyones here... Im beginning to think we have some rare anomoly that has yet to be found. if I find it, I will let everyone know. Until then, it could be the printer, the rip, or the computer we're using for output. This is why I am hoping our distributor will come out with a laptop and print to it to eliminate part of this equation.

I'll keep ya posted

 

[Freese]

That is real weird.

It could be electrical....but the reverse print quality actually looks good.
It could be Onyx, profiles, but it sounds like your distributor had you doing what I would, reinstall Onyx and profiles.

Please keep us updated, I am real curious about this one.

 

[RobbyMac]

Spoke with our operator... we just havent been able to get time to coordinate the conference call. This is our busy season.
Onyx apparantly had a tech remote connect/operate our rip computer... somehow printed one of our files through our rip, but onto his hp and could not replicate the problem. I fear this may turn into a pissing match between distributor and Onyx. I don't really want to blame either side, I just want it working.

The quality/printheads are spot on... it's just mirrored. Doesn't matter if it's vector, raster, or combination of both. Odd thing is, the 'negative image' issue hasn't happend in the past few days. With all of the printing, I am a bit suprised there.