Question HP Latex 300 Calibration

[MF Matthew]

Here is an interesting question that I don't know if anyone can answer. I am not new to the printing world, but have learned a lot over the years. I'm new to Signs 101, and it my first post, and not sure how to go about posting a question in the correct topic, but I was wondering about calibration. I have 2 HP Latex machines, Latex 360 and Latex 335. I have 2 RIP software. I use Onyx 12 for both, but also have Flexi 12, which is strictly for the L335, due to it being a Print & Cut system. I have noticed that when I print from Onyx and then from Flexi, that the color comes out different. I don't mean a whole noticeable shade, but it is noticeable to me.
I don't design files, just produce them, so this perplexes me. How can I properly calibrate my equipement so that I don't have to worry about color issues, as much? If I have a pantone swatchbook and was given Pantone Cyan, to match, why is it a issue to get those values to hit the correct color?
I clean, calibrate, change printheads, etc... on a regular basis to ensure accuracy, yet can't get exactly what I'm looking for, which may be impossible at this point in time.
I've seen X-rite and Spyder have calibration equipement and not sure if it is better than what the printers offer or what. I have contacted Sai, HP and Onyx and nobody can give me an exact answer and hope someone has knowledge on how to help.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[jwlllpl]

I know that the 360 has a built in spectrometer and the 335 does not if memory serves me. Maybe this is why you notice the difference. You may have to build your own profiles for the 335 to match the 360 and even then it may not be exact. I could be wrong but I don't think the rip is the issue. Pretty sure if the profile is corrected it will work from either rip. Very interested in the answer to your question.

 

[cornholio]

This won't be easy or even impossible, since different Rips can use different color engines and profiling solutions.
HP Latex printers handle linearization and ink limits internally. The more expensive ones have a i1 measurement device built in. The 360 certainly has one and can create ICC profiles internally. With the 335 i'm not sure, but i think not.
If you create a ICC on the 360, you can print a test image directly from the printer.
I think, it's not possible to use a color reference from a 360 in a 335(in HP lingo, this reference is the 100% densities of the primary colors). If this was possible, you could use the 360 ICC in the 335 and print the testfile from the 335 and compare it with the print from the 360. If these prints already differ(printed without the use of your Rips), your chances for success are very slim.

If you need to synchronize colors between two or more 360's or 560's, you create the reference and ICC on one printer, then transfer it to the other(s) with the printers web interface. Then do a color calibration on those other(s). Now the colors should match to within DeltaE 2 according to HP.
But then, if two different Rips use this same ICC, the output could differ more.

 

[ddarlak]

i'm not an expert but i did stay in a holiday in last night and i think this is a pointless endeavor, two different machines with two different RIPs and you want to match color....i don't see it happening

 

[ColorCrest]

I clean, calibrate, change printheads, etc... on a regular basis to ensure accuracy,

Are you familiar with printing a gray scale image file from each of the two machines to actually verify their accuracy?

If not, create a gradient file in Photoshop using sRGB or Adobe 1998 as the working space, 0,0,0 for one end as black and 255,255,255 for the opposite end as white. Make the file somewhat wide such as 32 inches x 6 inches so it fits across your machine. Print the file from both your machines and compare.

Let us know what you find.

BTW, your quest is achievable although you may need to invest in some other hardware, software and learning, if not hiring some outside help.

 

[jpescobar]

That's one of "major" problems with HP Latex printers : Color accuracy and print consistency.
Creating a custom profile for some media to get the desired result, calibrating, wasting inks/substrates/time and losing money.
Many reasons turned me away to buy an HP Latex.

 

[Tyler Birch]

Unfortunately, besides whatever colors you can store with the Spot Color Replacement Table function in Onyx, I think it's a fools errand to try and get large amounts of specific brand colors the same even between printers of the same model.

Just keep up with the maintenance/calibrations to make sure color output is consistent on each printer individually. I would suggest keeping a book that logs print samples, SO numbers, and print specific settings for each client and/or job. We have a 570 and a 360, I will split our client workload up evenly between them and make sure that I keep my records straight to avoid confusion.

Hope this helps!

 

[greysquirrel]

you are running onyx. put both printers on onyx. Start with one rip. Download canned profiles direct to units and run the color calibration through Onyx. Send the same files/resolution/passmode. You should be in the same ballpark.
Load your cutter into cut server...now you can print cut from both devices...throw Flexi away!

 

[MonkeyB0y]

Good Day Sir

Quite simply, to make these two devices have the same colour output and color consistency, you will require an external spectrometer.

1. The L360 has an internal LED spectro
2. The L335 has no spectro and relies on the line sensor (densitometer)
3. Use an external spectrometer i1 pro is a good start
4. Check printhead life, if heads are under 5lt all good, over 5lt replace.
5. Clean printheads and complete printhead alignment.
6. Setup a media profile on each machine with the same media and settings (internal profile/media setups)
7. Using the same RIP for both devices, IT MUST BE the same, complete a color calibration on both devices using the exteral spectro within the RIP.
8. Once complete, build an ICC profile on each device.
9. Depending on work load, complete a color calibration as and when required.

Remember, this does not have to be done for every media, only medias that require repeatability/consistency, ie, wallpaper, car wraps, corporate branding.

Pantone colors are practically paint mixes, sing CMYKLcLm to match 100% is, at this moment extremely difficult.

These printers are excellent units, but different in how they read color, so external input is required.

Hope this helps.

m

 

[Jayefkay531]

This won't be easy or even impossible, since different Rips can use different color engines and profiling solutions.
HP Latex printers handle linearization and ink limits internally. The more expensive ones have a i1 measurement device built in. The 360 certainly has one and can create ICC profiles internally. With the 335 i'm not sure, but i think not.
If you create a ICC on the 360, you can print a test image directly from the printer.
I think, it's not possible to use a color reference from a 360 in a 335(in HP lingo, this reference is the 100% densities of the primary colors). If this was possible, you could use the 360 ICC in the 335 and print the testfile from the 335 and compare it with the print from the 360. If these prints already differ(printed without the use of your Rips), your chances for success are very slim.

If you need to synchronize colors between two or more 360's or 560's, you create the reference and ICC on one printer, then transfer it to the other(s) with the printers web interface. Then do a color calibration on those other(s). Now the colors should match to within DeltaE 2 according to HP.
But then, if two different Rips use this same ICC, the output could differ more.

Hey Cornholio...I hope you are still out there. I recently acquired a second L360 printer (call printer B) that only had like 30k sqm on it (less than half the usage of my regular one, printer A). I understand there would be slight differences in shades, but I want to get them as close as possible with what I have (ignoring consumables wear and tear for the time being). I already cleared out all the old profiles from the previous owner and used the embedded web server to copy my profiles from printer A to printer B. Should the calibration be done on printer A right before moving them over, then calibrate on printer B, so it's as new as possible? Or would that not matter and as long as I calibrate on printer B after it's fully loaded, I should be good to go?

 

[balstestrat]

Do colour calibration on printer A before exporting the profile to printer B.
Then do the colour calibration again on printer B.

If your printheads on printer A have seen a fair amount of use, I would consider replacing them before doing all the calibrations. But it's up to you.

 

[Jayefkay531]

Do colour calibration on printer A before exporting the profile to printer B.
Then do the colour calibration again on printer B.

If your printheads on printer A have seen a fair amount of use, I would consider replacing them before doing all the calibrations. But it's up to you.

I figured this was the best route - but just wanted to see if it was truly necessary or not. Thanks for the quick response!

 

[cornholio]

Sorry for my late reply...

If you made the profile (and color reference)on printer A in good condition, you don't need to do a color calibration before you copy it to printer B. You can do it after copying.

Of course you need to do color calibrations on both printers quite often, if you want the system to work to specs. The drop size on bubble jet heads decreases during their lifetime.

(If you want to use the largest possible gamut, you should create the "color reference" with perfectly working printheads)
Color reference is HP lingo for "single colors density".
Interestingly, when you do a color calibration later on and the density can't be reached because of old printheads, there is no message informing you. (happens often with old LC/LM heads)