HP Latex and sticker printing

[DigiDude]

I'm about to jump into digital printing and reading posts on this forum has been a great resource for me to learn about yje process and business. I'm going to be printing primarily stickers of various sizes to start, but i have enough to afford machines that will allow me to branch out into other avenues of digital printing. So, I want to do this right from the start, and have myself in a position where I can print whatever it is a customer might request of me ... whether it be stickers, banners, wraps, window clings, canvas prints, and etc.

My main concern about latex printers (like the HP 560 or 365 that I'm seriously considering purchasing any day now) is the degree of graininess in prints that I've been reading about. Is there a better solution than latex for printed text of all sizes that one will find on stickers? Eco Solvent? Aqueous? I have no experience to discern prints from one source or the other .... is the graniness from latex truly an issue for smaller printed text, or is it not something the non discerning eye from the general public would ever pick up on?


Jason

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[particleman]

In my opinion it wasn't even a significant issue on the older generations. I have yet to run into something even on my older 26500 that wasn't usable. The machines can do perfectly sellable prints of anything you listed and you'll have happy customers. The newer generations are even better.

 

[JERHEMI]

I’m running a L360 with Onyx Thrive and don’t have any issues with grainy prints.

 

[pp_ceo]

Not to be a jerk, but you are printing decals - stickers are printed on paper and are something kids play with

The HP Latex machines are perfect for this application. If you saw a grainy sample I would suspect bad vinyl or something else being off. If the machine is functioning properly you won’t have any graininess.

 

[FrankW]

Grain prints can happen if the heads or the feed aren‘t correctly adjusted, regularly it works fine for doing decals. Have a look on one of the print and cut-bundles, a highly integrated print and cut solution.

 

[AF]

We print tons of stickers and decals and labels and appliqués and wraps on our latex. Since 99% of what goes out the door is laminated, the ability to lam right off the machine is why we keep the latex machine around. Color and detail will be better on some other types of machines so decide what makes sense based on all the variables.

Not sure what advantage the rip software has on the contone machines, but our shop runs Colorgate and we are happy with it. Easy to use, stable, handles nearly any pdf and they keep APPE updated. Running an L260, so again the newer contone machines with optimizer are their own can of worms.

Wish we could dual 30” rolls for certain projects.

 

[AKwrapguy]

I'm about to jump into digital printing and reading posts on this forum has been a great resource for me to learn about yje process and business. I'm going to be printing primarily stickers of various sizes to start, but i have enough to afford machines that will allow me to branch out into other avenues of digital printing. So, I want to do this right from the start, and have myself in a position where I can print whatever it is a customer might request of me ... whether it be stickers, banners, wraps, window clings, canvas prints, and etc.

My main concern about latex printers (like the HP 560 or 365 that I'm seriously considering purchasing any day now) is the degree of graininess in prints that I've been reading about. Is there a better solution than latex for printed text of all sizes that one will find on stickers? Eco Solvent? Aqueous? I have no experience to discern prints from one source or the other .... is the graniness from latex truly an issue for smaller printed text, or is it not something the non discerning eye from the general public would ever pick up on?


Jason

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I'm rocking two HP 570's and have no issue with 'graininess'. Small text is also not an issue. A lot of it is about having the right profiles for your printer and media. Some times this can take some time and material and needs to be regularly updated which again can take some time and materials which some people don't like or know how to do. The new HP latex make this pretty easy to do.

 

[dypinc]

The wrong optimizer settings in the Media Presets and the GCR settings in the Output Profile that is not set to take maximum advantage of the light inks are the reasons for graininess, along with what was previously mentioned about printhead alignment.

 

[DigiDude]

I'm rocking two HP 570's and have no issue with 'graininess'. Small text is also not an issue. A lot of it is about having the right profiles for your printer and media. Some times this can take some time and material and needs to be regularly updated which again can take some time and materials which some people don't like or know how to do. The new HP latex make this pretty easy to do.

Thanks for replying, this is the type of real world info I was looking for.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[DigiDude]

We print tons of stickers and decals and labels and appliqués and wraps on our latex. Since 99% of what goes out the door is laminated, the ability to lam right off the machine is why we keep the latex machine around. Color and detail will be better on some other types of machines so decide what makes sense based on all the variables.

Not sure what advantage the rip software has on the contone machines, but our shop runs Colorgate and we are happy with it. Easy to use, stable, handles nearly any pdf and they keep APPE updated. Running an L260, so again the newer contone machines with optimizer are their own can of worms.

Wish we could dual 30” rolls for certain projects.

Thanks so much for replying and sharing your experience with HP Latex ... definitely the type of information I was hoping to get. I appreciate it!

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[TomK]

I highly suggest you take some of your sample files with you and make sure they print them out on the best settings so you can see for yourself.

For all the folks saying you are not having problems with graininess, I'd be happy to pay you a consulting fee to work with me on the phone to work through my issues. So far, I've dealt with an HP Senior Support Engineer, HP Latex Expert, and 3 different national vendors (and 1 of them keeps "forgetting" to send me the prints back...), and all have come to the same conclusion I have, that what I am getting is about the best I am going to get it off of my HP 300 Latex machine.

Again, I am happy and willing to pay for consulting help and also for material and shipping for you to print out some of our samples. I am by no means a color expert and looking for someone who is that claims they can do it better than any of the folks I've already worked with.

Here are some example prints, from various vendors and machines, including my own output.

Roland TrueVis printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/uq03lf0SW313xtPB2

Epson S80600 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/eBaX95wRDtKfhwua2

HP printed HP 365 Latex - https://photos.app.goo.gl/kJuucZBgiyeCQX302

Canon Pigment Photo printer - https://photos.app.goo.gl/ViDWPmpV9grMS6b82

HP Latex 310 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/jxNuUW4EjeltgOo22 (my output)

StickerMule Printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/fhwFyFpd3OhetUjp1

 

[dypinc]

TomK

Are you having this problem on all medias? What are your optimizer settings in your Media Presets?

Take a look at this post. Dec 5, 2016 And this was not printed at 18Pass.

Take a look at the GCR settings of your output profiles. Black start especially.

PM me and we can discuss this further and make a print for you.

 

[TomK]

TomK

Are you having this problem on all medias? What are your optimizer settings in your Media Presets?

Take a look at this post. Dec 5, 2016 And this was not printed at 18Pass.

Take a look at the GCR settings of your output profiles. Black start especially.

PM me and we can discuss this further and make a print for you.

I am having it on all media for any of the sticker/decals we make, I've tried GF, Arlon, Oracal, Substance Media, Briteline, and a few others. I only see these issues on the stickers, any of the signs we do that have solid reds, blacks, yellows, and colors like that are fine and I don't see the issue. Also, no matter what I do I can't get a grey out of this thing, they are always a shade of purple somehow.

You can see the links I pasted the types of colors and stuff where the issue is happening.

I am using the latest Flexi 12 for our rip/print, if that matters.

I'll send you a PM and see if you can help me, I appreciate the offer tremendously!

Thanks!

 

[AF]

A couple of things. First off, the HP has a 12 picoliter droplet which is much larger than other types of printers. This has no effect on items viewed from several feet away like a sign. On small stickers with CMY colors, you will be able to see the dots if you get close. Obviously, solid c, m y and k colors will look perfect.

You can smooth the grain by increasing the light ink curves but you start to lose gamut as the extra ink laid down will push you to your max ink limit quickly and will restrict all channels. On vinyl, this will cause muddy colors and coalescence and will cause the prints to come out of the printer uncured. The prints will look slightly faded as well.

If you change the screen type to stochastic, FM or dither you can find the one that works the best at minimizing the grain (not sure if can be changed on contone).

In the end, you will need to adjust your expectations to be more realistic of the capabilities of latex. You can print color swatches and adjust your designs to use colors that print smoothly, and this is what I recommend after you get your media profiles dialed in.

 

[BigfishDM]

I highly suggest you take some of your sample files with you and make sure they print them out on the best settings so you can see for yourself.

For all the folks saying you are not having problems with graininess, I'd be happy to pay you a consulting fee to work with me on the phone to work through my issues. So far, I've dealt with an HP Senior Support Engineer, HP Latex Expert, and 3 different national vendors (and 1 of them keeps "forgetting" to send me the prints back...), and all have come to the same conclusion I have, that what I am getting is about the best I am going to get it off of my HP 300 Latex machine.

Again, I am happy and willing to pay for consulting help and also for material and shipping for you to print out some of our samples. I am by no means a color expert and looking for someone who is that claims they can do it better than any of the folks I've already worked with.

Here are some example prints, from various vendors and machines, including my own output.

Roland TrueVis printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/uq03lf0SW313xtPB2

Epson S80600 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/eBaX95wRDtKfhwua2

HP printed HP 365 Latex - https://photos.app.goo.gl/kJuucZBgiyeCQX302

Canon Pigment Photo printer - https://photos.app.goo.gl/ViDWPmpV9grMS6b82

HP Latex 310 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/jxNuUW4EjeltgOo22 (my output)

StickerMule Printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/fhwFyFpd3OhetUjp1

I was reading this thinking, who is the butt head who is forgeting to send your prints back. Then it dawned on me, I AM THE BUTT HEAD!! I am super duper sorry first of all, I think I went through this a few times also. I did get the same results you were referring to. It was on all the pastel colors. I will go see if I have the prints down there somewhere but they may be lost.

 

[AKwrapguy]

I highly suggest you take some of your sample files with you and make sure they print them out on the best settings so you can see for yourself.

For all the folks saying you are not having problems with graininess, I'd be happy to pay you a consulting fee to work with me on the phone to work through my issues. So far, I've dealt with an HP Senior Support Engineer, HP Latex Expert, and 3 different national vendors (and 1 of them keeps "forgetting" to send me the prints back...), and all have come to the same conclusion I have, that what I am getting is about the best I am going to get it off of my HP 300 Latex machine.

Again, I am happy and willing to pay for consulting help and also for material and shipping for you to print out some of our samples. I am by no means a color expert and looking for someone who is that claims they can do it better than any of the folks I've already worked with.

Here are some example prints, from various vendors and machines, including my own output.

Roland TrueVis printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/uq03lf0SW313xtPB2

Epson S80600 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/eBaX95wRDtKfhwua2

HP printed HP 365 Latex - https://photos.app.goo.gl/kJuucZBgiyeCQX302

Canon Pigment Photo printer - https://photos.app.goo.gl/ViDWPmpV9grMS6b82

HP Latex 310 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/jxNuUW4EjeltgOo22 (my output)

StickerMule Printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/fhwFyFpd3OhetUjp1

What media are you printing on? We use mostly 3M and generally don't have any issues.
Have you taken the time to set up you own media profiles or are you using stock ones?
What are the conditions in your shop? Is it dry, humid, cold, etc...

As far as the issue with grey...
Are you trying to get grey with RBG, CMYK, or spot?
Try this, in Flexi you can use the Color Mapping (about the 11 minute mark) feature with spot colors to dial them in. This will help out a lot. Also some times laminate can change the color of the print as some have a yellowish tint to them (3M 8518)

 

[eahicks]

Didn't see if anyone mentioned, but the number of passes can make prints grainy....generally anything 8 pass or over looks fantastic on Latex. Heck some 6 pass stuff looks just fine.

 

[AKwrapguy]

Didn't see if anyone mentioned, but the number of passes can make prints grainy....generally anything 8 pass or over looks fantastic on Latex. Heck some 6 pass stuff looks just fine.

I print most my stuff on 8-10 pass except banners at 6 pass. It could also be an issue with optimizer.

 

[astraios]

HP Latex 310 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/jxNuUW4EjeltgOo22 (my output)

This look exactly the same like mine output from HP 300 (also seems like the similar output from users in few other threads). I've gone trough every thread and tried every advice posted (result is still more or less the same). Most confusing for me is that there are some posts which claims there is no grain at all. I think HP users are evaluating level of graininess for completely different applications. So as from 'large format application' point of view you can claim that there is "no" graininess, till now no one didn't provide a simple photo from which you can conclude that level of graininess is not a problem for small sticker/decals.

So yes this is a problem for small format applications and if this is your core business HP 300 is not a best solution.

 

[Bly]

I thought you sounded over critical but those HP samples are nasty.
We have two 360s and never get grain like that.
If you look super close at greys there's a bit but nothing like that.

I highly suggest you take some of your sample files with you and make sure they print them out on the best settings so you can see for yourself.

For all the folks saying you are not having problems with graininess, I'd be happy to pay you a consulting fee to work with me on the phone to work through my issues. So far, I've dealt with an HP Senior Support Engineer, HP Latex Expert, and 3 different national vendors (and 1 of them keeps "forgetting" to send me the prints back...), and all have come to the same conclusion I have, that what I am getting is about the best I am going to get it off of my HP 300 Latex machine.

Again, I am happy and willing to pay for consulting help and also for material and shipping for you to print out some of our samples. I am by no means a color expert and looking for someone who is that claims they can do it better than any of the folks I've already worked with.

Here are some example prints, from various vendors and machines, including my own output.

Roland TrueVis printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/uq03lf0SW313xtPB2

Epson S80600 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/eBaX95wRDtKfhwua2

HP printed HP 365 Latex - https://photos.app.goo.gl/kJuucZBgiyeCQX302

Canon Pigment Photo printer - https://photos.app.goo.gl/ViDWPmpV9grMS6b82

HP Latex 310 printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/jxNuUW4EjeltgOo22 (my output)

StickerMule Printed - https://photos.app.goo.gl/fhwFyFpd3OhetUjp1