I Really Need Opinions

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

Sibole - Welcome to Signs 101.

Whether or not you make a go of it is soley up to you. Be forewarned that it is not as simple as everybody thinks and every minute that you put into learning will be a minute taken from family - no ifs ands or buts about it.

That said...do yourself a favor and avoid the cheapy plotter ESPECIALLY if you want to do shirts. Cheapies CANNOT cut small and fine, not even the Creation - something that is necessary when doing shirts. Here is a tip, whatever machine you buy MAKE SURE that it has servo motors NOT stepper motors. It is too detailed to explain why, so we are asking you to take our word for it.

As for explaining the initial investment to your hubby, let us put it this way. Cheapy stepper driven plotters are the equivalent of cheap and inaccurate chinese $1.00 tape measures, while servo driven machines (name brand: Summa, Graphtec, Ioline, Roland) are the equivalent of Stanley tape measures. If he does not understand the difference between the two, then we cannot help, as you are in for a very steep uphill ride.

Before you invest in a machine, you should invest in books and Corel Draw. We do not care how much time you believe you have, if you do not TRULY know the software and understand the principals of SIGN layout (there is a difference), then you are dead n the water.

We hope this helps - good luck.

 

[Gino]

Unlike when I started in this business, there are quite a few places to start your new venture today. This industry has become user friendly to get started. However, to keep your business [hobby] going, is a different story. I would strongly recommend going to some sign shows. Try visiting other sign shops in neighboring towns. Subscribing to various trade magazines and getting some trade books on design, layout and business would be a good idea. Keeping this a hobby, in my opinion, is just another way of saying; you don’t have what it takes to do it completely. Not full time, but completely. Meaning, collecting stamps, dancing, paintings grapes and seascapes are hobbies. Making money at something… is a business. The way in which you get started will probably dictate the way you run your hobby [business] until you stop doing it. Don’t pretend to these people and think you’re being clever. It’s not hard to spot deceit. When it is spotted, it’s hard to re-track your statements. Be honest with yourself and your customers and you’ll have half a chance. Try to fool the very people you’re asking for help and you’ll get kicked in the teeth… but politely.
:Oops: As you can see, you’re really going to have to be careful sorting through which answers are real and which ones are foolishness.

By the way, I need some construction, plumbing and electrical work done and I don’t think I want a professional to do it. Would your husband tell me where to get all my supplies, discounts, tools and explain to me how I can add 2,200 sq ft to my adjoining building and make it meet ADA codes ?? Since I’m doing the work myself, I imagine I won’t need any permits or such… you know, it’s not my real line of work and I just want to save some money.

This is how you’re coming off to this place for the most part.

 

[Techman]

My husband mostly wants me to do his own signs and vinyl work for him.

Wasting your time.. You can have a real sign maker do this for you and save all that time and money doing stuff for him. This is not just a matter of getting a machine, some software, some vinyl and hacking away.

Personally, I don't agree with your ideas at all. You will spend several thousand getting set up. Then you will have a learning curve, then you will make a load of ugly stuff at first.

Best way? Go purchase some One Shot lettering paint. A few good brushes, get a couple hand lettering books and paint away for a very small initial cost. Then you will not have wasted your time and money. And you can learn lettering, layout and design. Then you can move up to a machine.

Better yet. Get a good laser printer. and an exacto knife. Print out your graphic. tape it to some vinyl. And trace around on the lines. Thats a great way to make them little decals. cheap. fast, effective. IT wil ltake you longer to start the computer, load teh cutter, weed the vinyl,, that ti would to do it with an exacto. I used exacto long ago and it worked just fine.

IF you insist on getting a machine,, do not purchase any cutter with dog, cat, bird, or master or say in the name. IF you do don't come here asking for help to run one. This is not a place to get your technical support.

 

[Ron Helliar]

Welcome

"Newbie Forum New to the business or thinking about jumping in? Got some basic questions? Read through here first."

Welcome. I don't have any equipment suggestions as your budget falls well below what I feel you need to start out properly. But experience tells me people will try anyway.
So without harsh words or a downer, welcome, read, learn, practice, and may you find it an enjoyable business that is rewarding. Good competition is good for everyone.

 

[Sibole]

Don’t pretend to these people and think you’re being clever. It’s not hard to spot deceit. When it is spotted, it’s hard to re-track your statements. Be honest with yourself and your customers and you’ll have half a chance. Try to fool the very people you’re asking for help and you’ll get kicked in the teeth… but politely.

What do you mean? I would like to start a business, but I may not. I may just always do it in my spare time for my husband. Is that so bad. And why does everyone discourage? Making signs is something I would like to try. If I get good, then maybe a business. If not, I will just do it for my husband, who has confidence in me. Yes I want names of machines, that's what I came here to ask about, so I can just study up on those and not the trashy ones. I would love something to do that I think I can be good at. I just wanted opinions on machines from people who've been there, done that. I'm gonna start out just practicing when I am done studying software and everything else. If it's ugly, it's ugly. But practice makes perfect. I am only 23, and with time I am sure I will get better, and maybe 1 to 5 years later, I will be great at it and have a business. I just wanted help picking out a good machine to look into. And I thank all the people who have sent me messages with help and encouragment. I don't understand why people think I will fail. Did you all not start out from knowing nothing and get better?

And as for doing work on your house, depending on where you live, you may still need a permit. Even if it is your own home. My husband usually buys his materials from Home Depot, Lowes, and 84 Lumber. He also has family members who make cabinets, and that helps. And have you had experience doing this work? If not, you'll need to be very careful with the electrical and such. And the tools you'll need are expensive. It may be cheaper to hire a professional. My husband gets alot of work from people who try to do things themselves, but figure out it's not so easy or cheaper. And if you hire somebody, make sure you check them out carefully. My husband also gets alot of work from people who hired "handymen" only to have them take the money and run, leaving their house in shambles. Just be careful either way you go. I would have my hubby answer this, but tonight is his bowling night with his sisters and brother.

 

[Ken]

Check your private messages...

Ken

 

[cartoad]

Sibole,
You have gotten some great advice here, I don't think anyone here wants to step on your dream, just trying to keep it from being a nightmare. Your costs even if it is home based hobby type of business will continue to grow, different colors of vinyl, transfer tapes, and a host of small tools. Let alone all the things you will need to keep on hand if you do not have a sign wholesaler who will deliver on a regular basis. If you have no background in painting, applicatons, or design software and photoshop you will have an incredable learning curve, it can be done, but be sure and think about the cost of your time. With small children at home do you really have any spare time at this point? That said, if you are bound and determined to do it, buy the best equipment and software you can afford, read everything you can, purchase the training videos, reread all the posts here at least 3 times before you invest any $$$$. Good luck on your decision,
Hal

 

[iSign]

...have you had experience doing this work?
If not, you'll need to be very careful...

And the tools you'll need are expensive.

It may be cheaper to hire a professional.

My husband gets alot of work from people who try to do things themselves, but figure out it's not so easy or cheaper.

Don't worry... I'm sure Gino didn't want your answers for himself...
I'm sure he wanted YOU to look at them.

 

[Jillbeans]

I started out painting signs as the mother of a two-year-old when I was 23. I was always artistic and had even gone to art school!
This is my 22nd year of being in the sign biz.
9 years into the trade, I found out about the Letterhead movement through a sign magazine. Then I bought the Mike Stevens book and started to learn about the way a sign should look.
I eventually bought a plotter 9 years ago, an old Gerber 4B that I used as a cutter and did my designing on a PC with their program.
I raised 3 kids as a divorced mom, and I did things for myself even though my then-hubby did not approve. But someone had to bring in a paycheck!
I would say to concentrate on your kids, as they grow up so fast.
Your hubby should buy his signs from a professional.
Start finger-painting with those kids, and see if you are any good at hand-lettering. As has been stated, a can of 1-Shot and a few GOOD brushes, plus that book, is an investment of about $50.
Love....Jill

 

[kazoosigns]

Sibole, you mentioned that there is a sign shop in town. If you're so well known in your area (as you stated), could you go in there and see about a part time job, even if it's just a small handful of hours a week, when the kids are either with their dad or a sitter? Then you could find out firsthand if this IS in fact something you want to do, or something that even in the capacity that you're envisioning, would be too time consuming and difficult.

This is not a field where you can just be "crafty" or "creative" and survive. You need to remember that while you're only planning on doing your husband's signage, these are signs for his business and livelihood. If they look like someone that's just "crafty" slapped them on the truck, what image will that portray to the masses about his business? You need to think about that, first and foremost.

Good luck to you, either way.

 

[Shovelhead]

Kudos.........

for staying home with your kids.
:U Rock:

 

[imaSIGNr]

Since your local shop is moving they might not mind showing what they know and give you some insight as far as equipment and other things to be expected. I know you're not getting into it for business sake,but just to familiarize yourself......I worked for 16 yrs with another shop. Worked under the table for awhile after that, then started my own business. I started out very low budget., low tech. I still spent $6k as start up. That doesn't include my own shop that I built that is is almost 1500 sq. ft floor space and still not big enough.......I don't think most suppliers will even sell to you unless you are a business even....Just my take......Good Luck to you.........Another point.If your husband is a successful contractor and he is now maybe going to put ( no offense,but I have to say this ) a beginners ( hack job )letter his truck it's going to reflect on his business. Most people aren't going to say or think to themselves that he's just being a nice guy here and displaying his wifes handywork as advertizing on his truck . He probably can have a nice job done by a profesional that will reflect his message that he wants to portray........

 

[THATgirl]

Hi Sibole....I agree with a lot of the comments, however I do have to say when my kids were small I ran my sign business just fine. In the beginning from a storefront then later moved home after I got divorced...then moved back to a shop when they started school full time again. Then back homebased.
If you have the desire, and feel you are good at desigining and making attractive looking signs you just might have the perfect career. I am very thankful for being able to have had a sign business and take care of my kids at the same time. I got to go on every field trip. Many many times my kids went with me to do installs and finish painting a sign or two. Sometimes you have to rearrange your schedule but so what. I would go deliver signs when it was naptime and my kids would sleep in the van. Yes you can make it work.
If I were in your shoes I would give it a try. Layout a design for your husband, come back here to signs 101 and ask our thoughts. Trust me, you will get opinions. It is all practice practice practice!! Go to the grocery store and look at the logos on all the food labels, take notice of signs everywhere you go. You will soon learn what looks good and what doesn't.
And one last little comment. NONE of these people here were born signpainters, designers or instant sign makers. We all had to learn. But we do get tired of so many crappy designers coming into the business and thinking their work is tremendous. Learn to price right immediately. Never price too low and have fun!

 

[Rick]

D.I.Y. seems to be creeping into this (and other) business more and more these days. One of my favorite magazines is based on it....(http://www.readymademag.com/) If you are going to do it, I would raise the bar a little bit and maybe double your budget and get a better start than the average person who tries the hobby approach. As mentioned Summa, Graphtec, Rolands, Anagraph, Gerber and Ioline make good vinyl cutters. I like Adobe Illustrator myself but Corel is good too...and cheap. A decent bridge program like Co-Cut. If you are on a Mac, then Illustrator is your only option with Magi-Sign as a great plug-in. Then you have transfer tape and a small stock of vinyl. A scanner would be nice, as well as a few application tools.

A couple of more books to help:

"D.I.Y. Design it Yourself" by Ellen Lupton
http://www.amazon.com/D-I-Y-Design-..._bbs_sr_1/002-2845830-3124003?ie=UTF8&s=books

and

"Design-It-Yourself: Graphic Workshop: The Step-By-Step Guide" by Chuck Green
http://www.amazon.com/Design-Yourse...=pd_bbs_2/002-2845830-3124003?ie=UTF8&s=books

and a subscrition to Signcraft...
http://www.signcraft.com/

I personally think your age is perfect too soak in all this information and keeps you open to learning these new things if you keep looking at all the information out there...plus you have the energy for it, even with the 3 kids.

 

[Cadmn]

sibole I think the two sentences quoted from your reply to Gino pretty well makes a point of what most are trying to explain to you Here & no most here did not run out & start making signs at the drop of a hat. Its nice you have Money to buy whatever you want names read the posts most have Roland, Suma, Ioline, gerber, Etc. but that is only a small part of the equation. Think, you posted this... "And have you had experience doing this work? If not, you'll need to be very careful with the electrical and such. And the tools you'll need are expensive. It may be cheaper to hire a professional".but these words ring true in this Profession , its not a cheap hobby by NO means & why take food off your local sign guys table trying to have something to keep you busy ? build a garage or a house in your spare time!

 

[Ken]

Yah, What THATgirl said....!
The nay-sayers on this thread, while giving good advice to a degree, are also sick and tired of newbies showing up, making use of the new cheaper technologies and giving them a run FOR THEIR MONEY. I can't blame them for feeling that way. They have a LOT of time and money invested in this craft.
"Can't handle the Truth" is what they fear.
Go for it..make or break...time will tell.
Ken

 

[Gordy Saunders]

I think you should go 4 it. I moved here 7yrs ago. I had already paid for a vinyl cutter although I had NO idea what it looked like. I am also a mother. We started with a Gerber Emboss Track 24 It has always worked great we now have that and a Prism Jet Extra printer. After I started Angie down the rd started she had 3 teenage boys. We both did just fine. I had to and she just started as a past time for extra cash she no longer works for anyone I don't think. Go for it I say. Good Luck Steph

 

[skyhigh]

Hello. I am new here. My husband is looking at buying me a vinyl cutter and some equipment to learn how to and begin making signs. It would be a nice home business for me.

You make our job sound sooooo easy.

And as for doing work on your house, depending on where you live, you may still need a permit. Even if it is your own home. My husband usually buys his materials from Home Depot, Lowes, and 84 Lumber. He also has family members who make cabinets, and that helps. And have you had experience doing this work? If not, you'll need to be very careful with the electrical and such. And the tools you'll need are expensive. It may be cheaper to hire a professional. .

As for your husbands job, you make it sound like rocket science. Heck, all I need to do is practice pounding nails.... right? What are you talking about? Experience?? Expensive tools?? Hire an overpriced PROFESSIONAL?????


Helping you to understand where the animosity is coming from. Don't take offense Sibole. Your statements just rub the wrong way with some of us.

Now.... The lynx wouldn't be a bad cutter for what your talking about doing, and its priced right for a hobby person. Good luck, and let us know when you get your cutter and how things are going.

 

[Cadmn]

As I stated above , Much better/cheaper Hobbies to do
oil painting, model trains, planes, & automobiles any good hobby shop has TONs of Ideas

 

[iSign]

The nay-sayers on this thread, while giving good advice to a degree, are also sick and tired of newbies showing up, making use of the new cheaper technologies and giving them a run FOR THEIR MONEY. I can't blame them for feeling that way. They have a LOT of time and money invested in this craft.
"Can't handle the Truth" is what they fear.

actually this is the post the rubs wrong the worst. speak for yourself Ken. You have no business runnin' a good cop, bad cop game on our guest here while bashing all your fellow regulars on the board.

YOU got fears Ken? Fear them then, but leave us out of this fantasy.

YOU lookin' backwards Ken, to give consideration to your lost time & money? Focus on it all you want...

but WE are all too busy reaping the rewards of our investment & looking forward to future rewards & future investments.

YOU sick Ken? YOU tired Ken? Some newbie giving YOU a run for your money Ken?? SPEAK FOR YOUR SELF!!

Us "Nay-Sayers" can speak for ourselves just fine!