I think i may have made the biggest mistake ever buying a new Mutoh

[heyskull]

I purchased a new Mutoh Xpertjet 1641SR two months ago to replace our 14 year old Mutoh Valuejet 1604.
This so far has turned into the biggest issue ever even though basically it is still based on the original Valuejet.
Their are very little print profiles for this machine from such suppliers as 3M, Arlon, Avery, Etc..
Of what profiles I have the media is either applying to much ink or is producing a sub standard print.
The ink tank/bags do not show correctly how much ink is still available and will completley run out even though it is showing 30% full.
Ink supply for this machine in the UK is very limited and my machine has been sitting for nearly a week switched on (as you cannot put it into standby when tanks are empty) due to supply issues. Which as usual here is blamed on Covid or lack of lorry drivers!
I have blurry prints and although better colour gamut and good matching the prints are still not as high quality as the 1604.
My 1604 is in storage across in my unit (turned on) and I am seriously thinking about sending this back and reinstating it.

This is a buyer beware post as I do not want other business owners to fall into this trap.
Mutoh are not helping and the reseller we have bought of (Mutohs only dealer in the UK) are under educated in the machine and Onyx RIP it was supplied with.

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[netsol]

Hey skull,
I think we are missing the point about canned, dpwnloadable profiles.
Profiles compensate for the characteristics and quirks of the specified media, AS WELL AS YOUR PARTICULAR MACHINE. they are matching, an average roll of mecia, out of the manufacturer's run, as well as the average of your model printer. That's all a cannedvprofile can do.

You need to edit the profile, or, in the rip, lower your ink levels, till you get an acceptable point. From time to time you my need to tweak after a roll change, though, thankfully, not often. try lowering levels across the board by 10%, untilyou get an acceptable result. Or, in a perfect world, make a few custom profiles for the most common materials you print on

 

[heyskull]

I have had to try and alter profiles before and when you start moving ink levels and other parts of generic profiles some colours are altered and some stay the same.
I was originally told years ago to only use material manufacturers profiles that are specific.
I do not have enough time in my life to alter profiles to what they should be doing already.

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[Pauly]

Pay someone to make your media profiles or invest in the equipment to make your own.

Just because canned profiles are not available, it's not the end of the world.

 

[jfiscus]

In all reality, no two machines print exactly the same. Thankfully you have Onyx and with just a color scanner/eye you can go through the (less than a couple hour) process to modify and create your own custom profile for your machine. If you're used to using canned profiles, then you should only need 1 profile created. We only use 1 profile here, and as long as you're printing on vinyls coated for Solvent printing the color output should be the same every time with the only variable being the white point of the substrate. We don't worry about that here, it is what it is. If you're running multiple rolls on the same job, specify from your vendor that they come from the same lot#.

Use your most common media to set your profile up, and don't forget to laminate your test print with your most common laminate before scanning it in to calibrate the machine.

Even though we are VERY happy with how our (Epson 60600) machines print compared to each other, they are probably still only a 95% match with our own custom profile. (they run the same profile)

 

[hobbymad]

Have you considered third party inks? Digiprint is great and I usually have fast deliveries. I don't have a Mutoh but maybe ask them about it? https://www.digiprint-supplies.com/en/inkjet-ink?mid=12271

 

[fuzzy_cam]

Similar to your situation, we purchased (1) 1641 in March of 2020 to replace one of our two aged 1624s. We purchased another 1641 in October of 2020 and retired the other 1624. We have had a relatively good experience with both of these machines besides a couple of parts that were replaced under warranty free of charge, important to note that the parts failing didn't stop the printer from working.

What RIP are you using? We use Flexi & PM and primarily use the canned profiles for Arlon DPF XRP6000 (or something like that, I"m working remote right now) .... and a 3M 720 X 720.

 

[FrankW]

We have a 1641 SR in our Showroom in germany, and I had little time to learn how the machine works until now. For my opinion, the print quality is very good out of the box, at minimum comparable with the older 16x4 machines after doing basic calibrations (for example feed and bidirectional).

Unfortunately, I had no time to create a profile myself, but have found lots of onyx profiles for example on the Grafityp-Website (have tested with Onyx Thrive 21). With Flexi 21 too the results are nice. As far as I know, the customers I have done a demonstration this day have finally bought the printer.

 

[henryp]

I just did a quick Q4 (720 x 1440 8 Pass Bi-Directional) profile in Onyx on our XPJ-1641SR using mostly default automated settings, it came out slightly better than the canned SAI Flexi profile.

 

[heyskull]

We have a 1641 SR in our Showroom in germany, and I had little time to learn how the machine works until now. For my opinion, the print quality is very good out of the box, at minimum comparable with the older 16x4 machines after doing basic calibrations (for example feed and bidirectional).

Unfortunately, I had no time to create a profile myself, but have found lots of onyx profiles for example on the Grafityp-Website (have tested with Onyx Thrive 21). With Flexi 21 too the results are nice. As far as I know, the customers I have done a demonstration this day have finally bought the printer.

I purchased the machine of Grafityp in the UK.
I am using Onyx 21 as my RIP

We do not use Grafityps materials and tend to sway to 3M, Avery and Oracal print medias.
All of Grafityps profiles are very similar except for heat setting and all use Effect Fine & Fog 3, which is the slowest effect.

I have an issue printing on some materials and it blurs in different areas over a full width print as attached photo.
I am not sure whether this is a software issue or a hardware problem as the machine is only connected via a seperate network card and not on my main network.

If anyone had any profiles they could share for Onyx for this machine it would be much appreciated?

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[Johnny Best]

Any Bubble & Squeak at the Family Dinner place? No Mushy Peas for me please.

 

[FrankW]

I have an issue printing on some materials and it blurs in different areas over a full width print as attached photo.
I am not sure whether this is a software issue or a hardware problem as the machine is only connected via a seperate network card and not on my main network.

If anyone had any profiles they could share for Onyx for this machine it would be much appreciated?

SC

Depending in which direction you have the offset, you need to adjust the bidirectional printing or feed settings.

 

[Solventinkjet]

That double printing issue sort of looks like an encoder issue. My first thought was maybe the media is buckling in that area as well. Won't hurt to make sure the vacuum is turned all the way up and make sure your heat isn't set too high. Also, make sure there isn't any grease on the encoder. Newer machines tend not to have bad encoders but the grease from the rail can sometimes splatter on there and cause issues.

 

[heyskull]

Well I have cleaned the encoder and it has improved the print slightly but their are still blurring across the print in areas.
Vacuum is almost on full and the material is flat going through the printer.
Their is still too much ink being placed down as blacks and darker prints are flowing into each other.
Also noticed that all print modes I have managed to find for this machine are Bi-Directional, even the highest quality ones.
I thought and it was for the old 1604 I had, that to gain high quality you had to be applying a Uni-Directional mode?

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[FrankW]

Have you tried to adjust bidirectional printing?

 

[heyskull]

I don't want to adjust the bidirectional printing as it is not doing this over the length of the print.
As I am getting a technician over next week.
I have also noticed the encoder disk on these machines is no longer enclosed like the valuejet machines. Which will surely have further issues with contamination.
Also their is now a fan to the very rear which will be pulling ink vapour over the encoder fence.

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[Joe House]

Did you get print samples off of a 1641 before you bought this - or preferably watch one print your file(s). If so, you should hold the tech/sales team to delivering what they showed you before you purchased the printer. If not (shame on you) the print you posted definitely has some problems A decent tech should be able to observe what's happening and work out a solution.
Mutoh printers, in my experience are pretty forgiving and reliable machines. I'm sorry you're having problems with yours. It's not the norm.

Good Luck.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Oooohhh I forgot about Bubble n' Squeak! Best. Food. Ever.

 

[heyskull]

Did you get print samples off of a 1641 before you bought this - or preferably watch one print your file(s). If so, you should hold the tech/sales team to delivering what they showed you before you purchased the printer. If not (shame on you) the print you posted definitely has some problems A decent tech should be able to observe what's happening and work out a solution.
Mutoh printers, in my experience are pretty forgiving and reliable machines. I'm sorry you're having problems with yours. It's not the norm.

Good Luck.

Yes I did get samples from a 1641SR before purchasing.
Biggest issue is that none of the big material manufacturers have profilled for this machine and some of them have said they are not going to. Due to the lack of them sold.
I cannot think their should be such a large issue with this as it is very similar in build and parts used as the Valuejet.

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[heyskull]

OK the technician has been and spent the entire day and a lot more trying to fix faults. On the printer the only thing he could find was the bi-directional alignment was way out and this has helped big time printing on their polymeric material. I have not touched any alignments as I felt it was a bit early to start adjusting this. I am still having what I can only describe as ink not adhering and the edge between colours reacting on their and my monomeric materials. All available print profiles available anywhere as far as I can find are bi-directional and I cannot find any profiles to run at the much better uni-directional rate.
Does anyone have any more profiles I could try for the Xpertjet 1641SR using the latest Onyx RIP?
I am beginning to think the MS41 inks for this machine are very fussy with certain materials and even profiling is not going to cure or help the issues onto certain materials.

Thanks
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