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ICC Profiling in Onyx tips

Discussion in 'RIP Software & Color Management' started by iPrintStuff, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. iPrintStuff

    iPrintStuff Prints stuff

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    So I’ve been creating my own profiles since we switched to onyx with great results. I haven’t had any formal colour management training (and that’s now been postponed due to the worldwide shutdown).

    BUT, this should give me a bit time to get all my media’s profiled and get a few different print speeds set up. (I’ve only done it with the main media’s we use so far and only one print mode on each media) - albeit with great results so far!

    my only worry is just that I may be missing something. I read somewhere that you should recalibrate after setting the ink limits - is that nonsense?

    The onyx profiling seems pretty straightforward, calibration, ink restrictions, ink limits then create an ICC profile but just wondering if there’s any resources/step by step guides any of you guys use? What to look out for etc.
     
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  2. hazartilirot

    hazartilirot Member

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    Ink Limits is a part of the procedure provided you follow one step by step. You are expected to read ~2K patches once ink limits are set (unless you open a ready ICC profile and change ink limits).
     
  3. iPrintStuff

    iPrintStuff Prints stuff

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    that’s what I wasn’t sure about, so in theory once I’ve made an icc profile for a media, at say high quality, do I then need to create a new icc for production or use the same ICC then calibrate and set the ink limits (lazy way)
     
  4. P Wagner

    P Wagner Very Active Member

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    The sequence of stages in Onyx (and other RIPs) has long been expressed using a Pyramid, where the process starts at the bottom, and proceeds in step-by-step order to the top. You cannot rearrange the order of operations. See attached.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. iPrintStuff

    iPrintStuff Prints stuff

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    That’s what’s confused me; it’s literally a step by step process. What’s the difference between a profile I’ve made and a profile we get an “expert” in to make? - what do they do differently that I’ll not be doing myself with a million patches and my i1? Lol
     
  6. hazartilirot

    hazartilirot Member

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    It's all about accuracy and difference between materials used or inks.

    If you change material (matt to glossy, oracal to avery dennison, banner 440 coated to banner 440g laminated, etc) or any parameter like print mode (dot size 720 to 540 or 1080), dot pattern: stochastic to extended stochastic, temperature, passes - each and one of them impacts on your result. If something has been changed - you need to set: ink restriction, ink limits, etc meaning creating profile from scratch.
     
  7. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    It's really just a print scan next process.
    To get good results the only step that needs your judgement is ink limits.
     
  8. SignMeUpGraphics

    SignMeUpGraphics Moderator

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    We get a larger gamut when doing the ICC in i1Profiler compared to doing it through Onyx. Beats me why, but there is a measurable difference, so we don't do that part in Onyx any more.
     
  9. unclebun

    unclebun Very Active Member

    To me the only real fuzzy part of the process is at the beginning when you set ink limits. Even with the manual we got and the explanations for how to do it, it's really variable what you might choose for how much ink to lay down. The rest is pretty mechanical once you get to printing and measuring swatches.
     
  10. Jester

    Jester Slow is Fast

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  11. Pauly

    Pauly Colour Guru

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    Printer profiling is a step by step process.
    Ink restrictions > Ink linearisation > ink limits > ICC profile.

    with in each step, there's a lot of variables that can change the colour gamut size and the accuracy of the profile.
    ONYX has a very powerful set of tools to make adjustments in each of the steps.

    Onyx ICC engine is a hit and miss. But i can say, with the right settings it can really push out a good profile. But i hate their ICC engine.

    With an exert, They will know what setting to use for the characteristics of the printer getting profiled. They will also know what to look for during the process and how to adjust settings etc.
    For example, i could do a print-read-next method in onyx vs if i used my knowledge and made adjustments and tweaks in each section, i could get a much better profile out of onyx.

    reading 5000 patches will not solve issues though.
     
  12. tudouqiezi

    tudouqiezi New Member

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    I always wanted to know the process of others using epson workflow
     
  13. SignMeUpGraphics

    SignMeUpGraphics Moderator

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    The Epson workflow is half the work of the Onyx workflow.
    We have a new media we need to get profiled this week. I could document it if you're that interested.
     
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  14. Pauly

    Pauly Colour Guru

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    Generally speaking, All RIPS should have the following workflow in one shape or form

    Ink restrictions > Linearisation > ICC profile generation.

    depending on the RIP, those steps can be very simple/automated or have adjustment features.

    For example this is the workflow in onyx (which is customisable if you dont need all the processes) :

    Print mode: you select your print mode, media etc.

    Basic print mode settings: you name your media profile, select the resolution you want, dot pattern and a few other things.

    ink restrictions: you can adjust the limits manually or automatically. plot graphs, and go as far as adjusting variable dot curves for the print heads (not common to adjust unless it's for a specific media with much different properties)

    Linearisation: you can adjust the linearisation curve, you have the option to manually input your own density data. It also has an advance grey scale mode if you want to improve the grey scale, or the ability to import G7 curves from external software.

    ink limits: allows to to further limit your inks if they're not drying or not producing any more colour etc. you can do a very basic chart or an advance chart with more input options.

    G7: (new in onyx) : allows you to create G7 curves if needed (this is all internal no adjustments to be made)

    ICC: profile: creates or import your own ICC Profile. you can use presets or manually adjust settings inside onyx which is quite feature rich.

    Onyx AccuBoost ICC profile: (new in onyx) i've used this one or twice to see what it can do. its suppose to increase the accuracy. cant exactly remember the process but had to print off 2000-3000 patches or so, then you can make some adjustments to improve the colour accuracy.
     
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  15. SignMeUpGraphics

    SignMeUpGraphics Moderator

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    Epson workflow skips individual channel restrictions and linearisation. It uses onboard RIP to work it all out on its own (or so it was roughly explained to me by our supplier).
    The most control you have over it is giving it a total ink coverage percentage. Around 80% seems to be the sweet spot for 99% of our media. (80% works out to around 320% of "traditional" coverage... it actually refers to each CMYK channel).

    Very broad rundown of the Epson workflow:
    - Setup a new media type in Onyx, select resolution & passes
    - Pick an ink limit (usually 80% give or take)
    - Print ICC targets and generate profile in i1Profiler (or Onyx if you wish)
    - Import ICC into new media preset
     
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  16. Pauly

    Pauly Colour Guru

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    I have got onyx to produce some amazing colours. I'll even say that i got it to produce a better output than i1 profiler does.
    It was a tedious process, and even though it did such a good job, when it came to do it on another media, it felt like starting from scratch.
    how much media and time do you want to waste at the end of the day?

    Basically, every ICC profiling software i've used expect different types of inputs with ink characteristics.
    i've used the same measured data in 3 different software with 3 completely different results.


    if we're talking epson on onyx. then yeah. it's very limited.
     
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