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If you were starting over, what would you do/buy?

rm25x

rm25x

New Member
So I am going to start over fresh with my business. If you were in my shoes right now, and had a limited budget to work with what would you do?

Basically a little background. I worked for a redneck sign shop 10 years ago for a year. They went under.
Fast forward to end of 2008, I was cut to part time and decided I really enjoyed doing signs and graphics so after finding the US Cutter forum and finding a 50" china cutter on craigslist for $300 I was off and running. Well I set my business up as an LLC and ran it out of my home. Got quite a few jobs, sold on ebay, etc. Basically was a sign guy wanna-be.

Well after finding this forum, and lots of reading, I realized I wasn't quite the sign shop I thought I was. So I got discouraged and quit the biz after finding a full time job. Sold off my cutter and t-shirt press, etc. I kept my computers/software/clipart etc.

Well its been about 6 months since then. I have been saving up as much as I can and have been learning as much as I can. I am pretty good with Corel X3 now, have a place I can outsource all my digital printing and banners to for $2 a square foot. He did some stuff for me before that came out really well. Also there is only one other sign shop in my city, but several in surrounding cities. Thats the good.

The bad is that I don't have anything else for the business. I want to do it right this time and get equipment that will give me the best value for my money. I plan to keep working my full time job so I can do this the right way.

So what would you do/purchase if you were in my shoes? I would like to offer vehicle lettering, banners, simple signs (yard, signface, etc) and storefront lettering. Not planning on any electrical signs, etc at least for the first 5 years.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
(Oh and I have already bought "Mastering Layout" by Mike Stevens and have been studying it)
 
threeputt

threeputt

New Member
Until I got to the end of the first sentence where you state you have a limited budget, I thought this was going to be fun. lol.

If I could start over, I think I'd put more attention into obtaining high-end computer hardware and software. That, I've found, is where the real time is lost (and frustration) in running a sign shop.

Sure you need production equipment, but if you're "under-powered" in terms of signmaking software, libraries of clip-art, fast RIP station, networked work stations, etc. you're in for a long day...every day.

Just so happens, we are on the cusp of perhaps upgrading everything in the shop. (production equipment and computer hardware/software). There's something in the works and we're waiting for the "other shoe to drop", so to speak.

Now...that'll be fun. I'm looking forward to it. If....it comes about.
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
The first thing I would get is some marketing training. Forget every thing else. No machine, no special effects, no software will get you more than some good basic marketing training.
 
rm25x

rm25x

New Member
I am not going to undercut anyone or lowball. Why do I want to work for cheap? My full time job just gives me the financial freedom to take my time and set this business up the best that I can with what I have to work with.

Computer setup is a great suggestion. I agree, I think I am best setting that up right from the start since I will be doing a lot of outsourcing while the business gets off the ground.

Marketing is a great idea as well. I have started reading all the books I can on it for a start.
 
tomence

tomence

New Member
If you want to be successful the best way to market yourself is to put yourself out in front of people, knock on doors offer your services talk to people, talk to as many as you can. There is thousands of businesses around you get yourself some business cards, brochures, flyers and go out. Thats how i started i would go from store to store, business to business always try to talk the owner if possible you will be amazed how much business you will get. All the other marketing it does not work like calling people or sending emails stuff like that. Talking directly to people i would say i can get 3-4 jobs out of 10 customers i talk to, trying calling people i would get 1 out of 200 calls or you have to email 2000 people to get only one or two. Dont sit home and wait for the phone to ring or somebody to knock on your door. Like the other members said you can always outsource your jobs and for a very good price and resell it until you buy some equipment.
 
D

DarbySign

New Member
My shop is in CT, but I've made 3 trips in the past year up to NH to pick up equipment I found for dirt cheap on Craigslist. Use Searchtempest.com to search for printers, laminators, plotters and other equipment within a reasonable driving distance. Most people here will tell you to buy the best equipment you can afford, and I agree with that on principal, but I've yet to be disappointed with a craigslist transaction. Just use common sense and reasearch what your getting.

With that being said, I did purchase my Roland VersaCamm new, and I absolutely love it. The service tech just stopped in for a one year checkup and gave it a clean bill of health, so over 1 year and not a single problem. Now that I've gotten the hang of my Royal Sovereign laminator, I love that as well. I guess the lesson to learn from that experience, is find a sales rep you can trust who will learn about your business and educate you on what's available and affordable.

I'm still with my day job while I gain momentum, but the smartest thing I did for my business was join the local chamber of commerce. By getting involved with them, I've formed connections with more people then I could ever have met independently. With signs and banners, I can do little bits of charity work for Chamber projects and they promote me like a major sponsor and throw my plenty of paying work as well.
 
C

CentralSigns

New Member
DarbySign said:
the smartest thing I did for my business was join the local chamber of commerce. By getting involved with them, I've formed connections with more people then I could ever have met independently. With signs and banners, I can do little bits of charity work for Chamber projects and they promote me like a major sponsor and throw my plenty of paying work as well.
Click to expand...

Best thing I've done as well.
 
J

Just Another Sign Guy

New Member
a real business plan

top notch samples of the type of work you want to be known for producing

top notch portfolio of the type of work you want to be known for producing

quality self promo/marketing/advertising package (business cards, brochures, postcard/mailer, etc)

i see it all the time people go buy all of the equipment thinking that will bring in the work, it doesn't work that way. with the abundance of sign shops everywhere you could set up with a nice design station and farm out your work or i even know guys who pay an hourly rate to use other shops equipment. put the time and energy into developing a plan for success before spending money (or worse financing) on equipment for work you don't have.
 
heyskull

heyskull

New Member
To be quite honest if I had to start all over again I wouldn't!!!!
But if I had to I wouldn't go out chasing every bit of work coming through the door.
When customers see you are a new company they automatically think "CHEAP!!!"
Set out to be the best and don't try and buy business.
Also remember their is no such thing as a loyal customer!

SC
 
rm25x

rm25x

New Member
Lots of great info, thanks guys.

That was one of my problems before, I had a hard time saying "no" to a job, even if the pay iwasn't what I wanted because I was hard up for money. Now that is out of the equation with having a full time job for now. (having the job is helping me while I work on a career is how I look at it)

I do plan to farm out most of the work right now until I get to the point where I have enough work coming in to justify having the equipment on hand. No more cheap chinese vinyl cutters, etc for me. I have already farmed out some full color banners with great luck.

The other mistake I made was I never charged a design fee. Another piss poor rookie mistake. That along with several others I have learned from this site is the main reason I pulled the plug so I could back up and punt again so to say. I quickly became the "cheap guy" when I wanted to be known as the "quality guy" because I didn't have a clue as to what I was doing or how to price things, etc. Lesson learned... the hard way.

Now I am going to start with having all top notch marketing materials produced, and I am going to pay someone to design a professional looking website instead of making it myself. I think one of the few things I actually did right was having Phillip (Neato) design my logo, but even that we are going to tweak slightly.

I have a close friend that I have been doing some work for currently, he is a concert promoter and he is going to include me in all of his concert advertising including his radio and TV advertising for free along with paying me for the work I am doing for him. So I am hoping that is a big help to my marketing campaign.

A business plan has been in the works, but I do need to sit down and really add to it. So far I have just been putting down ideas for what I would like to have the plan include, etc. Mostly things I have been learning on this site that I would like to implement into my own business.

Sorry for the book guys, but you have been a big help.
 
TheSnowman

TheSnowman

New Member
The one thing I would personally have done differently is not bought my printer, but it sounds like you already have that planned out with a sub. I didn't know about subs that could basically print it for my cost when I bought my printer, so if I had to do it over again, I'd either not get one, or get a smaller version that doesn't take most of my income to the shop to pay for it.
 
Techman

Techman

New Member
When the OP mentioned starting over,, I take it to mean starting over from scratch with a very limited means of support.


Sure a business plan is a good idea. But how you goona implemet this plan? I had a great business plan. IT was around for years and made LoTs of money. But it didn't work without some type genuine marketing plan.


I have personal first hand experience at starting over from scratch. I moved 1,500 miles, started with about $10 bux in the pocket and did not know a single person. In fact, the first person I met was an @sshat on a rental agent.

I can tell you all first hand that not a single machine, printer, roll of vinyl or transfer tape did anything to get me going again.

I made an epiphany concerning some of the standard old worn out techniques that so many say would work.
I see some of those same ideas posted above. I can tell every one first hand that none of those ideas alone will work.

If we are working and having an income and live in a place where we are known it is all to easy to just buy a machine. To see this point all we have to do is read some of the posts here about who just got a brand new machine and is asking how to set it up.

The very first thing any one could do to be successful is..
Have an effective marketing plan that operates on a very low budget. Nothing else matters. With no plan all you will do is wander around taking a beating. Every one has a brother in law with a cutter in his garage. Every one has a buddy that owns a fancy printer. Every one has his plan to keep you out of his pocket.
They will be successful because you have no plan to get into their pocket.

The first thing you should get is a real marketing plan. Stick to it and make it work. Find you a niche and fill it.

The plan should include marketing to those least affected by cost and the economy. The big money is in full sheets.

Catering to the onsies twosies at $5 bux a pop is a waste of time
Cutting calvin stickers is bulllscat.
Printing wall words is bullscat.
Dabbling is for losers.
Casual membership is for losers.
Acting like a tourist wandering through just to take a looksee is for losers.
Doing work charging an amount that makes just enuf to cover material cost if you make a single mistake is for losers.
 
dwt

dwt

New Member
If I were starting over I would buy a motor home to remind me to take some time off once in a while.
 
rm25x

rm25x

New Member
Techman- Great post with sound advise. Thank you for taking the time to pass on your own personal experience.
All that stuff you posted at the end, I can say I was guilty of. But I have learned from those mistakes and then some.

High Octane- Whats going on? Nice to see another local.

Its hard to think about time off right now, but I am sure in due time I will be wishing for it!

Thanks again to everyone.
 
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