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IL Conceal & Carry

Joe Diaz

New Member
I find it ironic that people are worried about law abiding citizens carrying.
I'm all for the right to bear arms, however that doesn't change the fact that I "worry" about anyone with a gun. A lot of people are "law abiding citizens" until they decide to use their gun to break the law. But even if everyone who owned a gun would never think of breaking a law, even an accident can be deadly with a gun. I'm sorry but if anyone is carrying around something that can end a person's life at the pull of a trigger and was designed to do so, I'm going to worry about them. Period. I can't help it. That's the way I feel. But I still support the 2nd amendment.
 

d fleming

Premium Subscriber
Raised with guns and taught to properly use and respect them. Twice now in my life having my weapon on me has saved not only my life but others as well. I go nowhere without one.
 

genericname

New Member
I can do that, because ultimately it is the person being searched whether or not they accept the terms by entering my private property knowing that those are the terms of entrance. the constitution does not protect us from each other, only the oppression of our rights by government, everything else is up to local criminal law.

That is insane. If a wal-mart greeter asked to take a peek inside my bag, I'd laugh at him, and continue on my way. Search and seizure directly relates to law enforcement, sure, but it also means that my personal property is just that, personal. And nobody has any damn business knowing what's under my jacket or in my bag. There are rights that protect you from government, yes, but most rights also protect us from one another.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm just amazed that these two things can inhabit the same space. The idea that you can have a right that the government can't remove, but that a person or business can, is completely counter-intuitive to me. It may be a cultural thing, even though we're not so different. A courtesy, I understand, but not the legal right to suspend someone else's rights.
 

rjssigns

Active Member
I'm all for the right to bear arms, however that doesn't change the fact that I "worry" about anyone with a gun. A lot of people are "law abiding citizens" until they decide to use their gun to break the law. But even if everyone who owned a gun would never think of breaking a law, even an accident can be deadly with a gun. I'm sorry but if anyone is carrying around something that can end a person's life at the pull of a trigger and was designed to do so, I'm going to worry about them. Period. I can't help it. That's the way I feel. But I still support the 2nd amendment.

On a personal note I am slightly miffed with being able to pay 40 bucks and sit at the Ramada for a couple hours and get your permit. Regs need to be a tad more stringent IMO. Once you pull the trigger there are no do overs.
 

ucmj22

New Member
Although you are well within your right to limit weapons on premises would you actually want to face the lawyers in the case I previously mentioned?

Something else to wrap your head around. With the advent of CC why are business owners suddenly scared of guns in their establishments.

In simple terms it says they had no problem whatsoever with criminals carrying o their premises.

I appreciate your comments, and find engaging in bright social discourse, devoid of bashing and foul language most enjoyable.

I am a firm believer that if you draw a weapon, you shoot that weapon. By that I mean that a firearm has one purpose, to permanently stop, a mortal threat. this does not hold true for law enforcement who continually engage in high risk situations. If I find it necessary to draw my weapon, the next action would be 2 trigger pulls at center mass. The escalation to a firearm is a final one.

I certainly understand where you are coming from, but there are always too many "what ifs" to boil any situation down to the presence or lack of a gun. I believe in a persons right to carry without government obstruction, but I also believe in an individuals personal property rights to be able to control who, and in what manner their property is occupied, and I would not trade either one for the other.

:peace!:
 

iowasigns

New Member
I'm all for the right to bear arms, however that doesn't change the fact that I "worry" about anyone with a gun. A lot of people are "law abiding citizens" until they decide to use their gun to break the law. But even if everyone who owned a gun would never think of breaking a law, even an accident can be deadly with a gun. I'm sorry but if anyone is carrying around something that can end a person's life at the pull of a trigger and was designed to do so, I'm going to worry about them. Period. I can't help it. That's the way I feel. But I still support the 2nd amendment.

I also have an exacto knife on my person alot of the time, that also could end someones life. My point is that a gun is just an inert tool and used properly or sitting on a shelf will cause no harm it is the person that uses the harmless tool to cause harm that we have to concern ourselves with. just my 2 cents.
 

ucmj22

New Member
That is insane. If a wal-mart greeter asked to take a peek inside my bag, I'd laugh at him, and continue on my way. Search and seizure directly relates to law enforcement, sure, but it also means that my personal property is just that, personal. And nobody has any damn business knowing what's under my jacket or in my bag. There are rights that protect you from government, yes, but most rights also protect us from one another.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm just amazed that these two things can inhabit the same space. The idea that you can have a right that the government can't remove, but that a person or business can, is completely counter-intuitive to me. It may be a cultural thing, even though we're not so different. A courtesy, I understand, but not the legal right to suspend someone else's rights.

If you enter wal-mart with a bag, the greeter has every right to ask to search your bag, and if you refuse, they have the right to not permit you on to their private property. they dont have the right to force you to show them whats in the bag because it is ultimately your choice, you can choose to enter and abide by their search, or not enter and keep your property private. A business in most cases is still private property so when you think of these situations, think about it as being someones home. if you go to someones home and they dont want you to bring your bag in or let them look through it, youre not going to say, no its protected by the fourth amendment. You are entering someones private property and must abide by their rules, you have the choice to respect them or not enter. But if you then said no and the person asked you to leave, the invitation of entry is revoked and you would be arrested for trespassing or forcible entry if you did not leave.
 
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Joe Diaz

New Member
I also have an exacto knife on my person alot of the time, that also could end someones life. My point is that a gun is just an inert tool and used properly or sitting on a shelf will cause no harm it is the person that uses the harmless tool to cause harm that we have to concern ourselves with. just my 2 cents.

Exacto knife is not designed to kill, and is not as efficient at killing, and even though I also "worry" about people with exacto knives, (trust me, my old boss dropped one on my leg one time.:omg:) I worry less about them because it's less likely I get taking out by one. If a person makes a mistake with an exacto, I get a small cut in my leg, If someone makes a mistake with a gun I'm dead or seriously injured. The point is an exacto knife, or let's say a car which if controlled by the wrong person is also dangerous, is designed for something very specific besides killing, They only kill if miss managed. A gun is designed to kill. If miss managed it kills, if properly managed it kills.

Long story short, if it kill's I worry about it. The likelihood of being killed by it is related to how much I worry about it. I live in a small town with a low crime rate, I worry less about things killing me here as I do if I visited Detroit. No offense to people who live there.

Still support the right to bear arms though.!:thumb:
 

Joe Diaz

New Member
The other point people fail to realize is those signs are an advertisement to criminals for a Gun Free Zone.
You think this would work?
No Guns Allowed.png
 

genericname

New Member
If you enter wal-mart with a bag, the greeter has every right to ask to search your bag, and if you refuse, they have the right to not permit you on to their private property. they dont have the right to force you to show them whats in the bag because it is ultimately your choice, you can choose to enter and abide by their search, or not enter and keep your property private. A business in most cases is still private property so when you think of these situations, think about it as being someones home. if you go to someones home and they dont want you to bring your bag in or let them look through it, youre not going to say, no its protected by the fourth amendment. You are entering someones private property and must abide by their rules, you have the choice to respect them or not enter. But if you then said no and the person asked you to leave, the invitation of entry is revoked and you would be arrested for trespassing or forcible entry if you did not leave.

I understand the logic, I just don't really agree with it. I can't see a situation where it would arise that I wouldn't both be offended, and immediately seek a manager to chastise the employee for disrespecting my privacy.

I come from an interesting place, mind you, and have seen plenty of people walking down the street with their rifle bags, or had friends take theirs on the bus with nobody batting an eyelash.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
That is insane. If a wal-mart greeter asked to take a peek inside my bag, I'd laugh at him, and continue on my way. Search and seizure directly relates to law enforcement, sure, but it also means that my personal property is just that, personal. And nobody has any damn business knowing what's under my jacket or in my bag. There are rights that protect you from government, yes, but most rights also protect us from one another.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm just amazed that these two things can inhabit the same space. The idea that you can have a right that the government can't remove, but that a person or business can, is completely counter-intuitive to me. It may be a cultural thing, even though we're not so different. A courtesy, I understand, but not the legal right to suspend someone else's rights.


Is that how you feel at the airport or entering the court house to get a permit ??

I agree with ya, but there are always gonna be exceptions.

I now carry and so does my wife..... but at one time had a sign on our front door [at shop] requesting [strongly] one cannot carry their weapons into our shop. Then another one explaining this is a smoke-free building and to not bring burning cigarettes, cigars, pipes and other smoking devices into our building. I've changed my views as the area gets worse around here. Still no smoking, but the carrying of a gun doesn't bother me anymore.

I've had a few episodes, where I've made sure my gun was well within reach and carried it onto certain job sites, but have never had to draw it. Like mentioned, if that sucker comes out, your or whoever is next to you life had better be threatened deeply, cause you don't bring it out to show off. That's when accidents happen and things go wrong. I believe a person needs to be very disciplined and extremely careful at all times while carrying.

This past summer, seeing a guy gunned down about 100' or 150' away from right in front of me was the ultimate for me. Ya just never know.

As far as being afraid of them..... no different than some fool driving down the street half loaded or some crack addict coming towards ya. If someone wants to do bodily harm, they will try with whatever means they have at their disposal. Besides, you could step off the curb and get hit by a bus..... are we gonna outlaw buses ??
 

ucmj22

New Member
I understand the logic, I just don't really agree with it. I can't see a situation where it would arise that I wouldn't both be offended, and immediately seek a manager to chastise the employee for disrespecting my privacy.

I come from an interesting place, mind you, and have seen plenty of people walking down the street with their rifle bags, or had friends take theirs on the bus with nobody batting an eyelash.

You are certainly allowed to feel offended. Living in a free society does not preclude offense. I look at it this way, if I want the right to control who enters and in what manner they enter my personal home or business, I have to allow others that same right whether it is my neighbor, or wal-mart, it makes no difference. Both of the incidents you listed appear to be on public property. I could be wrong, but I dont think walmart would allow someone carrying a bag of rifles in to their store unless that bag was intended for return (assuming they sell rifles in walmart in canada) and if it was under my watch, I would want to see an empty chamber on each weapon.
 

genericname

New Member
Is that how you feel at the airport or entering the court house to get a permit ??

I agree with ya, but there are always gonna be exceptions.

No permits to be had here, but I do agree on the exceptions. I just believe the supermarket or Joe-Blow's Lawn Sign Emporium shouldn't be among them. My feeling is that if a government (and by extension, its people) deems carry and conceal to be a right, then that extends to all people and spaces where people with those rights are, with the exception to "secure" areas, like police stations or airports, and if it doesn't make sense to extend said right that far, then it shouldn't be a right. Not popular or flexible, I know, but you all have a general idea of where I'm coming from on this. I'm not a supporter of carry concealed, but I find supporting it while also supporting private limitations of it to be a fallacy.

Like mentioned, if that sucker comes out, your or whoever is next to you life had better be threatened deeply, cause you don't bring it out to show off. That's when accidents happen and things go wrong. I believe a person needs to be very disciplined and extremely careful at all times while carrying.

Damn right. You need to have respect for something that's designed to kill. Reminds me of a day, ages ago, when I was involved in kung fu. There was an immature brat taking lessons, and he had to touch everything and play with it. Took a sword off the wall while the instructor silently watched, and the moment the kid pulled so much as an inch of blade from the scabbard, the instructor calmly grabbed it, and with a firm voice, said "Be it someone else's or your own, you never unsheathe a sword without shedding blood."

Kid never touched a thing after that.
 

genericname

New Member
You are certainly allowed to feel offended. Living in a free society does not preclude offense. I look at it this way, if I want the right to control who enters and in what manner they enter my personal home or business, I have to allow others that same right whether it is my neighbor, or wal-mart, it makes no difference. Both of the incidents you listed appear to be on public property. I could be wrong, but I dont think walmart would allow someone carrying a bag of rifles in to their store unless that bag was intended for return (assuming they sell rifles in walmart in canada) and if it was under my watch, I would want to see an empty chamber on each weapon.

Oh yeah, I never meant to imply that I have a right to not be offended. None of us have that right, and I'd have it no other way; that's a direct route to intolerance. I do believe you have the right to refuse business, I just don't feel you should have the right to search someone. Catch 22.
 

thinksigns

SnowFlake
I have a carry permit. I don't know how it is in other states, but in TN you don't have to actually conceal it. Every now and then you see someone walking around with their gun on their hip like its the wild west. I actually had a guy come in the store carrying and it wasn't concealed. He asked to use the restroom and I didn't notice the gun until he was walking by me. While he was back there, I put my gun on and made sure my dog was up and nearby.

From now on, I just say my insurance policy does not allow customers in the back areas.
 
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