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IL Conceal & Carry

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slappy

New Member
there was recently a 7 year old boy accidentally killed Saturday by a gun here in our area, his fathers gun, it's been all over the news so you may have seen it. We know the father cause he has been in at our business several times as a customer over the past few years. We've even dropped him off a few times at his house to leave his vehicle here for stuff. He is truly a good guy and nice to talk to.
I feel different now about guns laws cause i went to the a gun store Thursday before this happened checking out the tomcat and a sw438 and conceal and carry permit and taking moving target classes. But this has accident completely kinda made me rethink my plan to protect myself. I truly been wanting to get one since we were broken into here a few months ago, but is it really worth the risk to own and have one? That is what i've been questioning myself since this happened to this child. Could have been anyone, including me kinda thought i suppose.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Slappy, there are accidents in every facet of one's life. What happened to that little boy could happen again to anyone and then it might not ever happen again.... that's why they're called accidents.

I was burned terribly when I was 14 years old, but I still cook on a grill, I make fires in the fireplace all winter long, I make campfires, I do lotsa things which involve fire. I have a deep respect for it and try to control myself around it.

I have a deep respect for guns and know they are 100% terminal, if used wrong and in some cases correctly.

However, if you have a fear, then you are certainly not a candidate at this point. I would suggest going to a gun place which has indoor ranges and rent a gun that suits your hand and try them under a completely controlled environment. Become familiar with one.... and one that you like...... then make a decision to carry one or just keep one handy for protection, later. Don't jump to conclusions immediately.

Right now, the Goddess is carrying an empty .38 Bodyguard around in her new gun-toting bag. It looks just a like a real purse and it's quite fashionable, but I want her to get used to the extra weight and the feel and some fear of having it with her. She has speed loads, in case of needing it, but just the same, everyday she is getting more and more used to carrying it.

It's just like getting contact lenses for the first time. It takes some time getting used to them in your eyes all day and then having to put them in and take them out..... there's a lotta getting used to there..... and with guns.
 
ucmj22

ucmj22

New Member
genericname said:
Oh yeah, I never meant to imply that I have a right to not be offended. None of us have that right, and I'd have it no other way; that's a direct route to intolerance. I do believe you have the right to refuse business, I just don't feel you should have the right to search someone. Catch 22.
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Then you and I agree on searches. I dont believe a person has the right to search you or your property without your consent, I am simply saying tht if it is understood that a search is required to enter a premises and one chooses to enter then they are consenting to the search. If you arrive not knowing of the policy and they ask to search you or your belongings, then you should still have the choice to leave and not be searched.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
So, if these people showed up, you would let them in if they let you search them ??
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genericname

New Member
ucmj22 said:
Then you and I agree on searches. I dont believe a person has the right to search you or your property without your consent, I am simply saying tht if it is understood that a search is required to enter a premises and one chooses to enter then they are consenting to the search. If you arrive not knowing of the policy and they ask to search you or your belongings, then you should still have the choice to leave and not be searched.
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Yes and no. I don't believe, barring secured areas as I mentioned before, that a search should be required on any premises, so consent shouldn't even factor into it. If the police have no right to search me, then you can damn well bet a private citizen doesn't either. I have a problem with "any reason" being part of the right to refuse service, in that it's too loaded, and leads to abuse and discrimination. You should be able to refuse service, but with good reason. "He refused to let me go through his groceries" isn't one of them.
 
ucmj22

ucmj22

New Member
genericname said:
Yes and no. I don't believe, barring secured areas as I mentioned before, that a search should be required on any premises, so consent shouldn't even factor into it. If the police have no right to search me, then you can damn well bet a private citizen doesn't either. I have a problem with "any reason" being part of the right to refuse service, in that it's too loaded, and leads to abuse and discrimination. You should be able to refuse service, but with good reason. "He refused to let me go through his groceries" isn't one of them.
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I still think we mostly agree here, which is a good thing. However, I still think you are having trouble recognizing a business as private property. You have no intrinsic right to enter and shop at Walmart, or any other private residence or business. When you access someone else's private property, you do so at their discretion. They can refuse you entry for any reason they want.

Assume that you are hosting christmas dinner at your home for your friends and family. In doing so you are providing a service for those people. That does not give me the right to enter your home in any manner. You reserve the right to grant or refuse access to anyone for any reason in your home. The same holds true for a business. A grocery store is not going to ask to look through your bag of groceries as you're leaving, because they have been surveilling you while in their store, and already know what is in your bags with an electronic record.

Businesses (and even homeowners) have the legal responsibility to ensure, with in reason, the safety of its occupants it can not do this without control over who or what is allowed inside.
To say that wal-mart (wal-mart sure has been dragged around in this conversation) forces people to be searched is to say that people are forced to go to wal-mart. Again, in the end, it is your choice to go to these places that may or may not require a search in certain instances as a condition of admittance.

Back to the OP..... WOO HOOOO! Concealed carry in Illinois........ at some point..
 
ucmj22

ucmj22

New Member
Si Allen said:
OK! How about this?
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also a good option.

I would like to commend everyone for not allowing this discussion to degrade to the point where it has to be locked down or removed. I think everyone has stated their positions with respect and I for one am prepared to let my argument rest as there isnt much more to say on the subject of personal property liberties

:rock-n-roll::peace!::thumb::clapping::Canada 2::unclesam::signs101:
 
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laserman70

New Member
I have carried for years. Also trained for years. (IN PA)
I believe that it should be a waiting period. At least 90 days, background checks cant tell a life story, but it is all we have.
There are alot of nuts out there. They can do more damage with a shotgun, or rifle than a pistol. You are allowed to ride in your vehicle with a rifle, shotgun etc. No permit needed. If someone has intention to harm, they dont need to get a permit.
In DC when all of the people were shot by that wackjob and a young kid, they didnt use handguns. It was a rifle.
I agree w/ both sides. However, I have put the time and training in. Understand that most dont. Bad part they give all of us who do a bad rap.
Guns are carried illegally everyday by thieves. They dont have permits... They dont care about anything but taking from innocent people. Those people should have the right to make this decision.
just my .02 I know alot dont agree. But when you get carjacked, raped, or god forbid something else done to you. You may change your mind..
 
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genericname

New Member
ucmj22 said:
also a good option.

I would like to commend everyone for not allowing this discussion to degrade to the point where it has to be locked down or removed. I think everyone has stated their positions with respect and I for one am prepared to let my argument rest as there isnt much more to say on the subject of personal property liberties

:rock-n-roll::peace!::thumb::clapping::Canada 2::unclesam::signs101:
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I'll say. This is one of those very rare situations where I don't feel "agree to disagree" means "I think you're wrong, so shut up".

High five!
 
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