Illustrator question on opening eps files

[gabagoo]

I was sent an eps file from a customer. I imported it into Signlab and found that there was some stroke data that was giving me trouble so I emailed the eps to my designer and when he was opening it in illustrator he casually made a comment that the font was hilighted in pink and that he would have to load the font. I questioned him as to why Signlab had no issues bringing it in as a graphic, and he said that my comp must have the font installed.

I told him that, no, Signlab does not work that way and it comes in as a graphic. I double clicked a letter to show him the nodes. I then said I can't believe that all the files I have asked him to open for me over the last 10 years would have required a font loaded in his system. How is this possible. I am sure if Signlab can deal with the eps file than certainly illustrator should have no issue opening the file as a graphic? Am I losing it? Have I been living in another world all this time?

 

[CanuckSigns]

There is a procedure to load a file into Illustrator if you don't have the font on your system that works well 90% of the time, you "place' the file than you "flatten transparency" I assume signlab does this by default possibly?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I would suspect that Signlab does something by default as a work around to this.

I know Inkscape will actually import files that Ai gives me a font sub msg for. Shoot, I've even had Document Viewer (Linux gnome program) will display everything correctly, while Ai will give me that error.

If Signlab is having the font come in as a "graphic" then that's telling me that it has a process of converting to curves/outlines regardless if the font was saved that way in the original file. Ai doesn't work that way or at least to me knowledge doesn't work that way up to CS6.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

There is a procedure to load a file into Illustrator if you don't have the font on your system that works well 90% of the time, you "place' the file than you "flatten transparency" I assume signlab does this by default possibly?

Part of that 90% is also if they have PDF Compatibility checked when they were saving the file. That used to be default, I do not believe that is the case now, but I could be wrong. That's only the scuttlebutt that I have heard.

 

[Pippin Decals]

Im just taking a wild guess on this cause i dont have or use Signlab,,But does Signlab access the internet when it comes to opening files and fonts? But i do use ai cs6/CC

 

[rcook99]

No Signlab will tell you to choose another font if it is not installed on your system in a similar way that Corel does it.

Gabagoo, If you want to email me the file I can try to open it in my SL 9.1, Corel X6 and Ai CS5.1.

 

[Pippin Decals]

I offered as well in a message

 

[shoresigns]

Part of that 90% is also if they have PDF Compatibility checked when they were saving the file. That used to be default, I do not believe that is the case now, but I could be wrong. That's only the scuttlebutt that I have heard.

I think you're thinking of AI files. The PDF compatible option needs to be turned on in order for the Place > Flatten Transparency trick to work, but it is on by default. They haven't changed that for as long as I've been using Illustrator.

The reason Illustrator complains about the font being missing when you open the EPS file is because it's trying to open it with editable text fields and that's not possible if you don't have the matching font installed. The vector outlines of the text are usually saved in EPS files even if the text hasn't been outlined, which is why Signlab is able to use them by default. However, Signlab probably won't allow you to open the EPS file with editable text boxes like Illustrator can.

 

[gabagoo]

Hold on guys..... My Signlab 8 opened the file OK...There was just something in the logo portion that may have had masking that I had trouble with. The fonts all came out just right, but not as fonts , but as a graphic. I mean I have been importing eps files for over 25 years and never once did I have a problem that would involve a font. I always thought that when a file was exported as an eps file that it automatically turned the fonts into a graphic. I know for a fact that I dont have the DAX font, but I regularly get eps files that were most likely coming out of Ilustrator and never, ever did the program default to something else.... My Flexi does the same thing as well. I only see issues with certain pdf files

 

[myront]

...I always thought that when a file was exported as an eps file that it automatically turned the fonts into a graphic.

Can't speak for Illustrator but I know in Corel you can export an eps as font or convert fonts. Always best to convert fonts. Corel will ask on import whether or not you want to import as text or curves. If you chloose text and the font is missing just cancel and re-import as curves.
Not converting the fonts on output i.e." export" or "save as" etc. is a common mistake. Drives me nuts! Seems to be one of those things they don't teach in schools.
DO NOT RELY ON "EMBEDDING FONTS"

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Can't speak for Illustrator but I know in Corel you can export an eps as font or convert fonts. Always best to convert fonts. Corel will ask on import whether or not you want to import as text or curves.

Ai CS6 atleast, does not give the option to export fonts as curves. It asks if you want to embed fonts, but then I've known some fonts that that wouldn't work and it would give you an error msg (see attached). Saving as an EPS doesn't in of itself mean that it's going to convert fonts to outlines/curves automatically. Certainly not within Ai. It's an option within Corel, but even then that option has to be enabled. Depending on what program the EPS file originally came from would determine if it was even an option on export (it may not have been). If Signlab is like Corel, then you probably never noticed an issue, because it had the ability to bring in a font as an outline/curve and then no worries.

Also, I do not recall importing an EPS asking if "you" want fonts brought in as outlines or as fonts. Ai just gives you an error msg saying that it's going to substitute the font for something on your system.

This is something that drives me up the wall, but everyone should know to convert fonts to outlines/curves when sending it out. It just shouldn't be an issue. I understand that sometimes one forgets to do that and that's one thing, but this happens way way way too much for that to be the case.

 

[shoresigns]

I always thought that when a file was exported as an eps file that it automatically turned the fonts into a graphic.

Ai CS6 atleast, does not give the option to export fonts as curves. It asks if you want to embed fonts, but then I've known some fonts that that wouldn't work and it would give you an error msg (see attached). Saving as an EPS doesn't in of itself mean that it's going to convert fonts to outlines/curves automatically.

EPS, AI and PDF files will all, by default, save the fonts in the file as both outlines and as editable text, in Illustrator. The exception is if the fonts are flagged to disallow embedding, but that's very rare. Notable exceptions I think are House and LHF.

That is why when you place the AI/EPS/PDF file into a document, you can see the fonts correctly and outline them using Object > Flatten Transparency. If you want the text to be editable, you just open the AI/EPS/PDF file, but then you need to have the font installed. And, as I already mentioned above, other non-Adobe apps like Signlab and Flexi will often just open AI/PDF/EPS files using the outlines rather than as editable text.

If, for some reason, you don't want to embed the outlines when you save a file, you can untick the PDF Compatibility option for AI files and untick Embed Fonts for EPS files. I don't think there's a way to disable for PDF files, unless the font is flagged to disallow embedding.

This is something that drives me up the wall, but everyone should know to convert fonts to outlines/curves when sending it out.

Again, this is a non-issue if you just use Flatten Transparency. I've never had to ask a client to outline their fonts and send a new file. I think it's far more reasonable that the printer should know how to use Illustrator and Acrobat to deal with different file issues, than for every client to know how to provide perfectly formatted files.

 

[ikarasu]

Thanks!

Everytime our designers send up a file they forget to flatten, I spend hours trying to find helvetica fonts. It seems like its named differently on windows and mac or something. I've installed all the fonts on their computer... searched / installed the font illustrator said I was missing, and it always takes forever. I spent a whole day getting fonts trying to fix it, because I was tired of asking them to flatten when they forgot.

Now for the odd file that happens, I can just place them and it works. I hardly ever need to edit the font, so this works great for me... Didn't realize you could do that, so thanks!


To echo what others have said - If you dont have the font installed, it will pop up an error. Illustrator has always done this... Other programs grab the outline automatically, illustrator is an editing program, not a printing / cutting program... So it doesn't do it automatically. It presumes you want to edit it, which it cant do unless it's as a font, and not flattened.

Some illustrator files have the font embedded... but most commercial fonts dissalow this. Maybe this is why you never had the problem before? It all depends on which font is used.

 

[myront]

Just for giggles the attached image is Corel's Export/Import options. Corel is a lot simpler than killustrator.
LET ME REITERATE, DO NOT MAKE EPS FILES IF DESIGN HAS GRADIENTS/FOUNTAIN FILLS. PDF ONLY!
We should charge customers extra for providing such eps files.

 

[shoresigns]

Some illustrator files have the font embedded... but most commercial fonts dissalow this.

You're welcome for all the info, but one last correction: all Illustrator files have at least a subset of the fonts embedded, unless you disable PDF compatibility. When you save an AI file with PDF compatibility (the default), you can change whether you want the whole font embedded or a subset, but you cannot disable embedding altogether. Again, the exception is when the font itself is flagged to disallow embedding, and that is rare, not common. Letterhead Fonts and House Industries are the only ones I can think of that disallow embedding, so when you use them, you must outline the fonts before saving as an AI file with PDF compatibility, or as a PDF file.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

EPS, AI and PDF files will all, by default, save the fonts in the file as both outlines and as editable text, in Illustrator. The exception is if the fonts are flagged to disallow embedding, but that's very rare. Notable exceptions I think are House and LHF.

And Steve's fonts as well as I was using one of his when I did that example.

However, if by default EPS, Ai, and PDF files save both a "live" version and the outline version, why the astronomical issues with font substitution? I cannot believe that all those people would untick that option. Most people hardly ever change the default settings as it is.

Why is this such an issue if by default those formats allow for both by default?

 

[ikarasu]

You're welcome for all the info, but one last correction: all Illustrator files have at least a subset of the fonts embedded, unless you disable PDF compatibility. When you save an AI file with PDF compatibility (the default), you can change whether you want the whole font embedded or a subset, but you cannot disable embedding altogether. Again, the exception is when the font itself is flagged to disallow embedding, and that is rare, not common. Letterhead Fonts and House Industries are the only ones I can think of that disallow embedding, so when you use them, you must outline the fonts before saving as an AI file with PDF compatibility, or as a PDF file.

So does that mean if my system doesn't have the font, most of the time the eps file should have it, and not give me an error?

Seems like Helvetica (Maybe it's the rare exception) Throws up a missing font everytime I open it un-expanded. Theres a few others too - Usually I go and download the font via the web, or copy it from the art departments mac... It's just helveticas family that give me grief. I recently fixed it by using a auto-loading font manager, and throwing every single helvetica font I could find in it, but now I'm just curious about embedding! I'm trying to get more into the graphics side of things, instead of just doing printing, so it's good to know.

 

[shoresigns]

However, if by default EPS, Ai, and PDF files save both a "live" version and the outline version, why the astronomical issues with font substitution? I cannot believe that all those people would untick that option. Most people hardly ever change the default settings as it is.

Why is this such an issue if by default those formats allow for both by default?

I'm not really following you. Why is it an issue? I don't recall ever receiving an AI/EPS file where the designer had actually unticked the PDF compatibility option. Do you get a lot of them?

So does that mean if my system doesn't have the font, most of the time the eps file should have it, and not give me an error?

It depends. If you open it in Illustrator, you will get an error. If you place it in Illustrator and then Flatten Transparency, you usually won't get an error and you'll be able to get the font outlines. Read back up the thread if you haven't already - I explained it a few times already.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I'm not really following you. Why is it an issue? I don't recall ever receiving an AI/EPS file where the designer had actually unticked the PDF compatibility option. Do you get a lot of them?

You better believe I get a lot of them.

I can easily tell when I get a file from a newer version (CC) and it's telling me that PDF compatibility isn't available. That's why I was thinking with CC they had changed the default, but since I don't have CC, I couldn't confirm that. It just happens a lot with CC files (from different clients, but they could be getting it from same designer, that I don't know).

It depends. If you open it in Illustrator, you will get an error. If you place it in Illustrator and then Flatten Transparency, you usually won't get an error and you'll be able to get the font outlines. Read back up the thread if you haven't already - I explained it a few times already.

I have done that, I still do get the error.

Here is the thing, every available alternative that has been mentioned, from what I can tell, is qualified in some shape, form or fashion. The one thing that works every time is just convert the fonts to outlines/curves. That is a basic step (at least I think it is and sooooo simple, right click -> create outlines in Ai, not that hard) when sending files out. Shoot, I do it with files that I don't even send out, just in the habit.

Now, I don't expect the clients to know this, but I do expect the person that is "designing" the file to know this. Font substitution issues aren't specific to the print industry, I'm not in that industry and I have this issue. To me, it is just something so simple to do. If the designer wants to keep "live" text in the "master" file, that's one thing, but anything going to an outside source should be converted to outlines.

I do know some designers that will get passive aggressive with clients. Instead of giving them an eps file, give them a flexi file etc. I know some embroiderers that will mess up the sequencing of the stitch file as well if a client requests the stitch file. There could be some of that going on as well with the fonts. That's me heavily speculating, but it's possible.

 

[IslandSignWorks]

EPS from newer versions of CC are not backwardly compatible to older versions of illustrator. The only way I've found to solve this reliably is to run the file through InDesign. Create a blank document, place the EPS, and then export to a compliant PDF. Works every time.