Need Help Importing EPS files from Illustrator

[myront]

All files need to be verified before production. I'd lose a lot of money if I printed pdf's "exactly as given".

 

[Bobby H]

That's not my point. My point is that those files are going out into areas where Ai is not the standard being used. Supplying a more universal file format that can be handled by other software should be done.

Which software would that be? Which file format? Please name an alternative to Adobe Illustrator that isn't going to break a bunch of the graphics effects generated in Adobe Illustrator. Major companies, advertising agencies, design houses, etc don't really care if some sign shop can't handle the latest bells and whistles of Adobe's CC applications. What they'll do is take the business to a sign shop that can handle the Adobe-centric stuff they provide. They're not going to change some effect in their branding when the only reason to do so is someone is using outdated software.

If some major client gives us AI CC 2019 files and they went nuts with the free-form gradient we need to be able to print that stuff. We can't tell the client, "sorry you need to roll back your vector graphics to 20 year old standards; we can't do anything new."

I wasn't saying anything of the kind. You really do love your strawman's don't you?

You keep bringing up the issue of clients to change their artwork when they don't have to do so in order to accommodate someone else's limited software in search of a "universal standard." And you frequently bring up embroidery in that context. There's not any "strawman" crap going on.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Which software would that be? Which file format? Please name an alternative to Adobe Illustrator that isn't going to break a bunch of the graphics effects generated in Adobe Illustrator. Major companies, advertising agencies, design houses, etc don't really care if some sign shop can't handle the latest bells and whistles of Adobe's CC applications. What they'll do is take the business to a sign shop that can handle the Adobe-centric stuff they provide. They're not going to change some effect in their branding when the only reason to do so is someone is using outdated software.

I'm getting the notion from my reading that it's all about one file. I'm not talking about exporting just one file. Everybody in a different industry with different standards has different needs.

I can get by with just a raster file (a lot of people can't) of sufficient resolution. That's not going to break any effects for me. Boom, done.

I'm no advertising agency, but when I do design work that people are getting source vector files, they aren't just getting one type of file. They get quite a lot of files to choose from based on what their needs are for a given application. I don't charge what advertising are charging and yet I'm able to do that. I will actually send files that aren't the master file with text converted to curves, strokes converted to outlines (as I do have custom brushes (not commercially bought, my own created brushes) that won't show up otherwise) and do a plethora of other things to help make the file work for as many people as it can.

You keep bringing up the issue of clients to change their artwork when they don't have to do so in order to accommodate someone else's limited software in search of a "universal standard." And you frequently bring up embroidery in that context. There's not any "strawman" crap going on.

They don't have to change their artwork. It's all about exporting.

I've got quite a few clients that work in 3D software only as they deal with that type of production. That's their standard, am I to have those programs on my computer to support those standards for fear of them going to someone else otherwise?

 

[Bobby H]

I'm getting the notion from my reading that it's all about one file. I'm not talking about exporting just one file. Everybody in a different industry with different standards has different needs.

You're spinning that in a manner suggesting there is no dominant graphics standard for anything. That's wrong. Adobe's software dominates in all of the mass communication forms of advertising. Print, Internet, Video and even quite a bit of the sign design space too. They're almost enough of a monopoly worthy of being broken up into different companies. That's how much they control the market. I don't say that in any kind of cheer-leading fashion either.

I can get by with just a raster file (a lot of people can't) of sufficient resolution. That's not going to break any effects for me. Boom, done.

Yeah, congratulations to you. We already had that tiresome conversation before. You might be able to stitch some embroidery stuff from some hack's JPEG file. That's all fine and good. The work flow for sign companies is quite a bit different. Vector-based artwork has a premium there. Not pixel-based crap.

They don't have to change their artwork. It's all about exporting.

Um, again, exporting to what format exactly? Outside of the ubiquitous Adobe-World a bunch of the stuff breaks. Things can be re-built to a certain degree in rival applications like CorelDRAW. But in other cases you stuck using the Adobe stuff if you want to reproduce the artwork accurately.

 

[GAC05]

Um, again, exporting to what format exactly?

Power Point seems to be popular here lately with car dealers winning bids for government vehicles spec'd to have department logos on the doors.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

You're spinning that in a manner suggesting there is no dominant graphics standard for anything. That's wrong. Adobe's software dominates in all of the mass communication forms of advertising. Print, Internet, Video and even quite a bit of the sign design space too. They're almost enough of a monopoly worthy of being broken up into different companies. That's how much they control the market. I don't say that in any kind of cheer-leading fashion either.

I'm not saying that there are standards, there are. In my experience, it just isn't all the same thing.

In the apparel world, it's Corel (and I'm not a fan of Corel at all, it even comes bundled with my $15k software (and Corel has been apart of other apparel software, plugins as well, there is a dirth of it for Ai, although that has improved) and I don't have it installed). In video, I've actually seen more of broader use. DaVinci Resolve seems to be doing fairly well in that area and I am a fan of Adobe's Premier.

Yeah, congratulations to you. We already had that tiresome conversation before. You might be able to stitch some embroidery stuff from some hack's JPEG file. That's all fine and good.

This is a trivial thing, but not all the people that send me JPEGs are hacks. They just know that regardless if my source file is vector or raster, my process is the same. Although that vector file has the closest chance of being setup correctly to be used almost as is, no one is going to do it the way it needs to be done, it would break production abilities of far more production types setting it up that way.

The work flow for sign companies is quite a bit different. Vector-based artwork has a premium there. Not pixel-based crap.

In production, object based for me is a premium, but not necessarily in the source files. Regardless if I get a vector or raster based file, I'm still creating an object based file in result and from there, it goes into production. Every single time I'm rebuilding a file, so while you may be able to avoid it, no matter what, I am doing that. That's why it doesn't matter to me if I get a vector file or a raster file.

And I can export my standard file format into a file format that Ai people can use, DRAW people can use etc as pure regular vector objects, stripped of their embroidery info. Because I'm willing to bet that they aren't going to be able to read/use the native file that I work in, which is the standard in my industry. Not Adobe, Corel would be closer to that since it has direct integration with the digitizing software itself.

Because of this, the tools that are available are far better, quicker, efficient then ones that you would get in Ai and DRAW for rebuilding, of course, for $15k, I would expect as much though.

But make no mistake, object based is still the premium for production here (wouldn't be able a lot of the decoration methods if didn't have vector info of the object and that type of info is also housed in aforementioned proprietary object based file that I deal with (that's how I'm able to export pure vector files as well), as the plotters, bling machines and for those that use spangle machines (my embroidery machines have a dispenser built in, so it's done in the embroidery file type)).

Just not so much in the source file. That's the biggest difference.

But make no mistake, object based files are still a premium.

Um, again, exporting to what format exactly? Outside of the ubiquitous Adobe-World a bunch of the stuff breaks. Things can be re-built to a certain degree in rival applications like CorelDRAW. But in other cases you stuck using the Adobe stuff if you want to reproduce the artwork accurately.

Which ever file format works to get the job done in the most efficient manner.

When you send something to an outside vendor, depending on what their industry is (and I'm not exactly in an industry outside the realm of possibility that these files would make it to, just like sign shops), they may not need the same files. So while Adobe may or may not have dominance, that doesn't mean that it does in another. Only sending out master files (which to me would mean with everything still "live"), is not exactly the best thing to do in every instance. Some instances, yes, but not all.

Now, make no mistake, still accepting outside files and running 20 yr old software and that's your main software, not some secondary or tertiary software, that's something else. I'm not advocating that. While I do have software still (and still running) from the 9x era, it's not my main software. I still use it (one software I use as a teaching tool as it's not overwhelming, but still does a good job at the basics (and it's still object based as well)). That same software wouldn't be good to use as my main software as then my only source file option would be .bmp and it wouldn't be able to take advantage of current machines abilities. It would still export files that would run on current machines, just wouldn't be able to do some of the nicer, cleaner things that can be done with the newer ones.

Power Point seems to be popular here lately with car dealers winning bids for government vehicles spec'd to have department logos on the doors.

I miss the ppt files. For me, I seem to get some sending Pages documents to me. Not even kind enough to send docx files, it's Pages.

 

[myront]

Almost all of our files get sent to the RIP as rgb tiff anyway. Files that are ALL vector AND designed by me are sent as either eps or pdf. Don't send me an ai, cdr, eps,or pdf unless it needs cut.

Here's what I don't like about third party files.

1. CMYK full scale (3ft x 10ft banner) with just text @300dpi - overkill! (pdf with fonts converted or rgb full scale @150dpi is fine). Actually just include what text you want on the banner and I'll put it together myself and send a proof unless, of course, you're wanting a specific font.
2. Bleed - I prefer no bleed - many reasons for this that I'm not gonna get into
3. Not giving the finished size specs. "It's sized already" usually equals NOT SIZED
4. Low res JPG files! Why jpg if it's obvious you or someone else designed it. Why raster at all if it's just text!
5. Raster files that you want "cut-to-shape"
6. Raster files with text you want me to change.
7. a scan to pdf of your a letterhead and ask me to use the logo from it.
8. a picture from your 2002 flip phone that you took while in motion
9. any photo from social media

 

[Bobby H]

Power Point seems to be popular here lately with car dealers winning bids for government vehicles spec'd to have department logos on the doors.

We do a lot of work for the US Army and Air Force. The military in general is really bad about sending PPT files. Somebody needs a sign made out of a unit crest; they almost always provide a PPT file with a BMP image embedded for the initial try. We tell them there's going to be a service charge if we have to re-create that logo in vector format. About half the time they'll respond by sending over an EPS file to avoid the logo conversion fee.

In the apparel world, it's Corel (and I'm not a fan of Corel at all, it even comes bundled with my $15k software (and Corel has been apart of other apparel software, plugins as well, there is a dirth of it for Ai, although that has improved) and I don't have it installed). In video, I've actually seen more of broader use. DaVinci Resolve seems to be doing fairly well in that area and I am a fan of Adobe's Premier.

Print publishing, web development and video production are the biggest markets for graphic design. They dwarf even things like the sign industry. Adobe dominates those big markets and its "contagion" spreads out to all the other niche markets. If you're able to get by using JPEG images you're lucky. We can't do that.

Blackmagic Design has made apps like DaVinci Resolve a little more popular since they're selling it and other video-related applications for very low prices ($299 for DaVinci Resolve 15 Studio). Nevertheless, Premiere grew to dominate the video production space this decade. Part of it came from mistakes made by Apple (the Final Cut X debacle). Dynamic Link between Premiere and other very popular applications like After Effects became the real selling point.

This is a trivial thing, but not all the people that send me JPEGs are hacks. They just know that regardless if my source file is vector or raster, my process is the same. Although that vector file has the closest chance of being setup correctly to be used almost as is, no one is going to do it the way it needs to be done, it would break production abilities of far more production types setting it up that way.

Like a knee-jerk reflex, most clients will grab the first "art file" they find on their computer and send that. 9 times out of 10 it's going to be a JPEG image or another pixel-based format. Sometimes if the client doesn't have an art file on his computer he'll right click on a web page logo, hit save and send that. Or he'll ask us to get their logo from their web site. These points of contact are often not knowledgeable about graphic design; they've just been volun-told to get the job done.

Many small businesses make the mistake of letting a self-proclaimed graphic artist design their logo in Photoshop. Larger businesses don't do that. They usually have their brand assets and other materials created at some level above the competence line. If a larger business has professionally-created brand assets they expect them to be used without alteration. Some of these companies have brand asset portals on their web sites (occasionally with user login requirements); I typically see AI, EPS and PDF covered and maybe a few pixel-based formats for some assets. I never see CorelDRAW files in those places however. Asking those companies to convert their logos over to an old version of CorelDRAW is likely to be a non-starter. Those departments don't use CorelDRAW and they often don't use Windows PCs either.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

We do a lot of work for the US Army and Air Force. The military in general is really bad about sending PPT files. Somebody needs a sign made out of a unit crest; they almost always provide a PPT file with a BMP image embedded for the initial try. We tell them there's going to be a service charge if we have to re-create that logo in vector format. About half the time they'll respond by sending over an EPS file to avoid the logo conversion fee.

We've done a lot of patch work for specific military branches. I've always gotten PDFs with vector info in them, but I also know who is sending me the stuff and they are knowledgeable in this area, so I'm lucky in that regard.

That for sure isn't always the case.

Print publishing, web development and video production are the biggest markets for graphic design. They dwarf even things like the sign industry. Adobe dominates those big markets and its "contagion" spreads out to all the other niche markets. If you're able to get by using JPEG images you're lucky. We can't do that.

It quite hasn't made it in the apparel world when it comes to specific production methods (bling, sequins, embroidery), however, cut vinyl and print that's where you start to see the "contagion". I was very much the odd ball using Ai for my design work. Corel has really integrated with these, especially in embroidery. That one, very expensive, plugin that I showed is the only one that I'm aware of from a major software vendor for this niche industry for Ai. Far greater integration with DRAW. As such, it has the limitations of DRAW when it comes to Ai master files.

You also have to realize that SVGs, in my industry, are taking off like crazy. If I remember in another thread, you said that you don't deal with customer supplied files of that type as much. I've actually gotten more SVG files and requests for them as well.

Some things do stay in their little bubble and what may be true in one area, doesn't always hold true in another.

Blackmagic Design has made apps like DaVinci Resolve a little more popular since they're selling it and other video-related applications for very low prices ($299 for DaVinci Resolve 15 Studio). Nevertheless, Premiere grew to dominate the video production space this decade. Part of it came from mistakes made by Apple (the Final Cut X debacle). Dynamic Link between Premiere and other very popular applications like After Effects became the real selling point.

Price and able to do the job as needed are the two important things. Price is only going to get one so far if it can't produce the desired results. Focusing on how expensive something is, doesn't necessarily mean that it will do the needed job.

This is something that Affinity can use to their advantage depending on how it goes from here. Not saying that it will, it just has a chance.

I really do think Apple has done things that are really putting themselves out in left field. I think the cultist mentality is only going to go so far with staying with Apple, and that could still be pretty far. Just not the same.

Like a knee-jerk reflex, most clients will grab the first "art file" they find on their computer and send that. 9 times out of 10 it's going to be a JPEG image or another pixel-based format.

I think also some of that is due to the fact that they are picking files off their computer that they can view. Probably in thumbnail view off their file manager. If they have them on the computer in the first place.

If a larger business has professionally-created brand assets they expect them to be used without alteration. Some of these companies have brand asset portals on their web sites (occasionally with user login requirements); I typically see AI, EPS and PDF covered and maybe a few pixel-based formats for some assets. I never see CorelDRAW files in those places however. Asking those companies to convert their logos over to an old version of CorelDRAW is likely to be a non-starter. Those departments don't use CorelDRAW and they often don't use Windows PCs either.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Those variety of formats, ready to go. PDF, if done right, should be ready to go, no problem and that should actually be usable for most instances (not all). Any changes that I need to do for the actual physical production process, I can do that and leave the PDF file alone. I don't need it in that way. For those that aren't that fortunate, you would have the Ai file, if one needs it and the EPS as well. Raster files for the last ditch effort, for those that can get it to work. That's the way it should be. Not just one file, especially if that one file is a Master file with elements still "live" and not "finalized" for production use.

Again, I'm not advocating using a legacy software, especially as the main software, if going to be accepting outside files. Whatever software you are using, whatever the standard is for your industry, needs to be relatively current if going to be accepting outside files. However, I also believe not to be sending out the master file out in the wild to all the vendors. Some vendors may need/want it and that's fine, but not all industries can handle that same file. A properly done PDF should not be a strain to do as well.

 

[Johnny Best]

I think Wild West rode that Bobby H bull for 8 seconds.
Still trying to picture in my brain what Strawman's crap would look like.

 

[Bobby H]

You also have to realize that SVGs, in my industry, are taking off like crazy. If I remember in another thread, you said that you don't deal with customer supplied files of that type as much. I've actually gotten more SVG files and requests for them as well.

Larger companies tend to stick with Adobe's file formats for traditional graphics purposes. Smaller businesses tend to fall victim to people who insist on using Photoshop for designing logos and other brand assets. That's where a bunch of the JPEGs tend to originate. SVG could be a more viable format, but it doesn't match all the features of Illustrator AI and PDF, or even CorelDRAW for that matter. And like PDF, SVG files can be saved in a manner that makes them pretty worthless when opened for editing in an application like Adobe Illustrator or even Inkscape. SVG Tiny files often have problems, just like compressed down PDFs.

I really do think Apple has done things that are really putting themselves out in left field. I think the cultist mentality is only going to go so far with staying with Apple, and that could still be pretty far. Just not the same.

In terms of video production the thing that's hurting Final Cut is the other applications in Final Cut Studio just aren't all that popular. Adobe has a big arsenal of industry-leading creative applications that can put assets directly into a Premiere Pro project. You can make changes to those assets with having to re-import them. It cuts down dramatically on processing time.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Those variety of formats, ready to go. PDF, if done right, should be ready to go, no problem and that should actually be usable for most instances (not all). Any changes that I need to do for the actual physical production process, I can do that and leave the PDF file alone. I don't need it in that way. For those that aren't that fortunate, you would have the Ai file, if one needs it and the EPS as well. Raster files for the last ditch effort, for those that can get it to work. That's the way it should be. Not just one file, especially if that one file is a Master file with elements still "live" and not "finalized" for production use.

Some graphical effects in AI, EPS and PDF files still stay "live" regardless. Those pesky gradients, transparency effects and even some clipping mask effects are effectively live. One thing I really have to police with client art files is line stroke effects. If the strokes not set to be scalable then it's a big problem if the art gets re-sized. Normally I just expand the line stroke into an editable path. But now line strokes can have gradients in Adobe Illustrator. That's something that just doesn't port over to other applications (like CorelDRAW) at all. The folks lacking up to date Adobe software might be stuck having to accept a rasterized TIFF image if they have to incorporate that asset into a larger design. That doesn't yield the best results.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

SVG could be a more viable format, but it doesn't match all the features of Illustrator AI and PDF, or even CorelDRAW for that matter. And like PDF, SVG files can be saved in a manner that makes them pretty worthless when opened for editing in an application like Adobe Illustrator or even Inkscape. SVG Tiny files often have problems, just like compressed down PDFs.

No, but then again, they do have other abilities as well. But Ai/DRAW don't incorporate those abilities. I make wide use of XML data. Not everyone might, but it does have that ability. Since Ai/DRAW doesn't incorporate that ability, that info is killed when opening and saving in those programs.

File saving/exporting can be quite adventurous in any file format if people aren't aware of what they are doing.

In terms of video production the thing that's hurting Final Cut is the other applications in Final Cut Studio just aren't all that popular. Adobe has a big arsenal of industry-leading creative applications that can put assets directly into a Premiere Pro project. You can make changes to those assets with having to re-import them. It cuts down dramatically on processing time.

There is no doubt about that ability in various Adobe programs that really helps them working together.

Starting to see some of that come about in other programs, but they are still behind the times compared to Adobe.

But now line strokes can have gradients in Adobe Illustrator.

Hasn't that been around since CS5? If we are talking about the same thing, my work around for a finished file, no more edits is convert to outline.

Same thing that I have to do with my custom brushes as well.

If we are talking about the same thing.

 

[Bobby H]

I think the gradients on line strokes feature was introduced in version CS6. It has been almost 7 years since that release. But the feature still seems kind of new to me. Regarding brushes, most of those effects can be expanded into editable paths (which can be safely exported).

 

[Barry Jenicek]

WOW!!!! 32 replies to my question!! There might be an answer in there somewhere.

Hi there, remember me? I'm the guy who asked the original question! "How to import an editable EPS file format into Corel x3 from Illustrator."

The Designer solved the problem and it works perfectly. I have an editable EPS file (by-the-way, the image is black on a white background).

I knew the designer would need to save it as a lower version. She did so and it worked...to a certain extent. All the text came over fine because it was converted to curves, but, the image of the animals still came over as a bitmap. This was her second attempt

On the third attemp, it came over perfectly. This is what she wrote...

[The only thing I did differently was chance the animal image to an OBJECT with the “anchor points” as Illustrator calls them.]

Make sense to you??? Not exactly the Step-by-Step I was looking for, but it will have to do. I really appreciate all of the replies that were given but perhaps one of you can elaborate a bit more on her answer without going too far off track.

Thanks again!!
Bj

 

[Bobby H]

Normally any vector-based artwork in an Adobe Illustrator file would remain as vector-based artwork in export to EPS format. Usually you'll get elements in raster/pixel form if those elements were placed into Illustrator like that (such as a photograph). But you can rasterize vector-based elements into pixel-based objects. Why would anyone do that? Sometimes it's a good idea if you're sending sketches to clients who are obviously shopping around. Some customers have no clue at all about concepts like copyright law. And others place zero value on the time/labor a designer puts into creating a layout. It's nothing to them to try to take that artwork and have a rival sign shop use it as is to produce the job for less money. I've lived through that experience numerous times.