Ink Pooling

[Custom_Grafx]

I just realised after all this, that there's a huge gap here equipment wise. Do you think one day a company (maybe even Roland), will just build it into the package/machine?

Imagine this;

1) print a target from VW
2) the versacamm comes with its own proprietary a4 scanner - you scan the target
3) VW builds a simple profile to at least make 80% of people happy

Why the need for all this 3rd party equipment and software, coupled with a very complicated process and margins for error.

If I'm suggesting too much, it could even be an idea that roland makes it compulsory for buyers to attend a colour workshop where they learn how to do all this stuff. Unless something like this is already in place and we're simply not told?

These machines are sold as 'high end' and 'industry standard', and we pay good money for them. The support and knowledge base is fantastic when it comes to roland, but for a company who relies on being at the forefront of this technology, I think they need to listen to more people in need of a colour managed workflow.

I've always been with roland, but say for example mimaki or mutoh developed a system like the one I suggested above, I would seriously consider moving over.

What are your thoughts peoples?

 

[fusiongraphix]

I have been fighting with roland and the 3rd party ink situation for years. I know Fellers sells Mutoh and they back there machines and service 100% on top of using 3rd party inks.

I did some simple math over the last 2 years and using Solaris Inks I saved on average $12,000 in two years by using Solaris ink. in the end by paying for service and parts i still saved money in the long run and without any problems.

I wish the manufactures would be a bit more open to 3rd party inks. I understand they are tested with Roland certified inks but how far off can the 3rd party inks be..

its like buying a car and they require them to use there Gas.. pretty soon Roland is going to make you use there media or your warranty is void.

I have proved to the industry by using 3rd party inks for 3+years that they work just fine to a point..

 

[Custom_Grafx]

After alot of playing around with as many things as I could, I've found some answers, and writing them here in case someone else with a VS640 double CMYK (coming from a SP series) comes along with same problems.

1) The SP and VS, are very different - despite the same RIP and interface etc.

2) The included profiles behave very differently - try them all and learn and feel them.

3) I don't know for sure, but being double CMYK, my educated guess (based on testing different profiles), is that a 12 pass on HQ with this setup, doesn't really give you a good quality print, because it's laying down the ink twice as fast as previous models due to the double cmyk head setup.

4) If you want something like a HQ print with W-Pass (that's another thing that doesn't exist on the VS setup), the closest and best thing I've found, is the 20 pass profile which is included in VW - called GG/GS PET or the PVC. Select this baby and hit duplicate profile, then create your custom ink limits and ICC's and it's amazing quality. I am quite surprised.

5) There is a template for 16 and 12 pass as well.

In summary, I find the below to be true.

12 pass only just passes for standard quality equivalent on the SP (SQ with w-pass on SP machine is much better actually - but has more passes).

16 pass is like HQ, without the w-pass on the SP.

20 pass is like HQ with w-pass on the SP (I think 32 pass).

The colours I'm getting with the 20 pass are incredible - especially the blues and greens. I am yet to perfect the red I want, but I can see it coming soon!

Note - the word "quality" above is not referring to the resolution as such - but more the quality of the laydown of ink onto white glossy SAV and the absence of ink pooling or drying difficulty etc. Refer to OP's photo.

 

[Colin]

I am yet to perfect the red I want, but I can see it coming soon!

Are you using the Roland colour palette? My reds look like premium vinyl.