Installing 25' x 25' mesh banners between columns

[Andy D]

I have quoted a customer (7) 25' x 25' mesh banners with a framing system.
Original they were going to installed on walls, now I'm being told they need
to be installed between columns.
I’m wondering if we used the framing system and the
contractor put I-bolts every 4’ down on both sides of the columns
& ran steel cable, pulled tight, across… Would that be enough support?

Or would it be better to have strapping sewn in all four sides with D-rings
and just skip the banner system all together.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Johnny Best]

Strapping sewn in with d rings.

 

[Robert Armerding]

What Johnny Best is recommending is very important.
Are you able to tell if there might ever be much wind in that location?

 

[Andy D]

Strapping sewn in with d rings.

Do you know if they are able to sew in strapping horizontally through the middle of the banner, for example, every 5' feet?

What Johnny Best is recommending is very important.
Are you able to tell if there might ever be much wind in that location?

I don't know, but I have worked on other stadiums, and those areas can be wind tunnels...

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Any outdoor sign needs to consider high winds...

 

[Robert Armerding]

Several tips.
Reinforce the corners.
Have heavy rope sewn in to any edge that is not attached to support.
As Johnny Best said, see if they can sew in strapping. His recommend every 5' is a great idea.
Just in case, on half moon wind slits, that is just inviting a rip.
Are you able to get 10oz mesh, or just 8oz?
As Texas_Signmaker says, high winds will take their toll. Be sure to find out how long your client expects the banner to last.

 

[Andy D]

Yes, Agreed. I make sure everyone knows that banners are guaranteed to be free from defects when picked
up, other than that, they are sold strictly as temporary signs, they might last 4-5 years or they might rip in two
days.

Thanks to everyone.

 

[Andy D]

Problem is they are going to want a framing system.
Does anyone know if there is a banner frame system made to span an open area?
I'm meeting with them Monday, for now this is sized up proportionally
for a 25' x 25' banner in a 25' span.

 

[White Haus]

Problem is they are going to want a framing system.
Does anyone know if there is a banner frame system made to span an open area?
I'm meeting with them Monday, for now this is sized up proportionally
for a 25' x 25' banner in a 25' span.

View attachment 147601

I know it's been a long week, and it's almost beer thirty, but that box don't look square to me!

Smart-a$$ comments aside...
I wonder if you could have some steel beams made up then tie into those pillars (for the spanning sections).
I can't think of anything else that would would have enough structural support over a 25' span.

I dunno, I personally would be a little nervous about something like this but anything is possible.

 

[Robert Armerding]

Let's focus on just the sides.
Eye bolts every two feet would be better. The 25 length means that one would only be one foot apart.
The D Rings would have the same spacing, with tape, as Johnny Best mentioned.
Now, let's focus on the top and bottom.
The steel cable in a pole pocket should work. If you go that way, then the tape that Johnny best could also be sewn in to the pole pocket. That might be helpful with the 25' span.
The reinforced corners would just be a little added strength and wrap around the pole pocket. You could have what they call double reinforced corners, which means there is extra material on both sides. It is a triangle shaped piece added to the corner.
Other issues. If they want a 25' steel frame, then you could attach the top and bottom with D rings, again every two feet. In other words, D rings all the way around. I would still go with the tape idea. Two inch tape would be your best choice.
For the actual material, I assume you are talking about mesh material that does let the wind through, right?

 

[Andy D]

I know it's been a long week, and it's almost beer thirty, but that box don't look square to me!

Smart-a$$ comments aside...

It doesn't, does it? I thought the same thing and double checked it, it was 25' x 25' & then I measured the box on my screen 3.5" x 3.5"...
I think what's throwing us off is I altered the perspective of the image (look at the original)
I wanted to see; if the columns are 25' apart, approximately where was the top and bottom of the banner going to hit.

 

[Billct2]

Depending on the framing system they are insisting on I would probably still want the horizontals anchored to a steel beam bridging the columns and well anchored.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Thats a big span, you should probably have an engineer involved in this one for safety reasons. More than likely, a steel beam or truss system would be needed to attach the frame to but youd need loads calculated to spec the beam and how to attach it.

 

[Robert Armerding]

Yes, Agreed. I make sure everyone knows that banners are guaranteed to be free from defects when picked
up, other than that, they are sold strictly as temporary signs, they might last 4-5 years or they might rip in two
days.

Thanks to everyone.

Andy D
If I were in your shoes, I would spell it out in writing and have them sign off with a full signature. Maybe even record a verbal understanding.
Why? Because if those banners rip to shreds, they are going to come after you to replace them. Or, they will write bad reviews about you.
I know because when I worked at Product Sign Supplies in San Jose CA very frequently our sign makers would have to reorder a custom banner. The wind ripped it up and their client demanded a replacement.
Protect yourself.

 

[Jeremiah]

How do you spell it out ? Every possible application ? Improper application by customer . I see my banners used as flags. If it has been done with vinyl letters. That beats them to death and the letters will come off .

 

[Robert Armerding]

How do you spell it out ? Every possible application ? Improper application by customer . I see my banners used as flags. If it has been done with vinyl letters. That beats them to death and the letters will come off .

Based on my own experience with sign makers having to spend more money on a ripped custom banner project, I simply offered Andy D something to consider for this very large project.

 

[printhog]

that project will create at least 12,500 pounds of wind force on each mesh face at typical building code levels. If it's in a high wind area, or near the coast, it could be 2x higher. While mesh will reduce some of that, but it is risky to just wing it - your install method should be engineered. I used to make speaker maskers for MTV and VH1 music tours, our biggest were 25'x80' and we had welded edge tape and grommets every 12" of the perimeter, with reinforced corners and 1" pole pockets along top and bottom threaded with tensioned 1/8" steel cables as safety. Nothing sewn, engineers wouldn't allow that. all fabrics fire-rated class 1. The faces were attached to engineered aluminum trusswork supporting the stage/speakers/etc. It might seem like just a mesh banner, but 7 of yours will create an additional 87,500 pounds of wind force in the structure. enough to lift a fully loaded semi off the ground. What you want to avoid is the liability if you don't involve an engineer.

In another install (interior of a store) we used aluminum truss-style framing to create 2"x8'x32' "flats" and suspend them from the ceiling with seismic safety cabling attached. That allowed us to tension the face drum tight. we did a similar install for a 20'x25' solid banner outdoors for a state fair building. design your framing idea and hire an engineer to check it, that's far cheaper than having the engineer design for you, they'll over build it and not be efficient for your shop.

 

[spectrum maine]

I have quoted a customer (7) 25' x 25' mesh banners with a framing system.
Original they were going to installed on walls, now I'm being told they need
to be installed between columns.
I’m wondering if we used the framing system and the
contractor put I-bolts every 4’ down on both sides of the columns
& ran steel cable, pulled tight, across… Would that be enough support?

Or would it be better to have strapping sewn in all four sides with D-rings
and just skip the banner system all together.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


View attachment 147600

i would run heavy cable top bottom and 1/3 up ad down all horizontal with turnbuckles.then grommet the banners where the cables hit in the middle and use heavy zip ties attaching in the center. the cables are in the back

 

[SeeEmWhyKay]

Problem is they are going to want a framing system.
Does anyone know if there is a banner frame system made to span an open area?
I'm meeting with them Monday, for now this is sized up proportionally
for a 25' x 25' banner in a 25' span.

View attachment 147601

I have used a Lind Sign Spring system in the past for a 20 x 20' - similar situation to this, not completely exposed but outdoor/ covered suspended between a building and and post. They are super easy to work with and the product is top notch.

http://www.lindsignspring.com/component/tags/tag/signspring-system

 

[Andy D]

I have used a Lind Sign Spring system in the past for a 20 x 20' - similar situation to this, not completely exposed but outdoor/ covered suspended between a building and and post. They are super easy to work with and the product is top notch.

http://www.lindsignspring.com/component/tags/tag/signspring-system

Thanks, they're actually who I will be using & they have been very helpful.
What the Contractor, Engineer & I finally came up with was a Lind system on the sides of all the banners and a steel cable top an bottom running thru pole pockets.