Intellectual Property and Copyright Theft In Our Industry.

[3CGraphics]

Regarding copyright - I see many folks here posting photos of comic book characters, beer and soft drink logos... all kinds of images that they have reproduced for their kids room or as a gift for a friend. Everyone congratulates them on a job well done. Seems like a double standard to me.

I was always under the impression that copyright means no reproduction regardless of whether you are selling it or not.
I know the message at the beginning of a movie informs you that any copying at all, for commercial or personal use is illegal.
Does this not apply to all copyrighted images?

Indeed you are correct - if you make something (like a wall hanging of a copyrighted image) for yourself or your kids or a friend and give it away you are depriving the mark holder of the opportunity to profit - IOW they could have sold that item you gave away. Letter of the law - will the mark holder pursue it - hard for them to know you did it (unless you post it on the internet etc) however that doesn't make it "right" - only not caught.

 

[Dice]

Regarding copyright - I see many folks here posting photos of comic book characters, beer and soft drink logos... all kinds of images that they have reproduced for their kids room or as a gift for a friend. Everyone congratulates them on a job well done. Seems like a double standard to me.

I was always under the impression that copyright means no reproduction regardless of whether you are selling it or not.
I know the message at the beginning of a movie informs you that any copying at all, for commercial or personal use is illegal.
Does this not apply to all copyrighted images?

It seems that thumbnails of Images or Pictures are fair use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_v._Arriba_Soft_Corporation

It seems that you can take images and put them on your site, pass them around freely. As soon as you print it and make money off it, it becomes infringement. Since he only used it in part, his lawyer could argue fair use and
sufficiently transformative.

I would like to point out that it is not criminal, it's civil. If the author sues this guy, he's not going to jail, it comes down to damages.

If I was him I would remove the wrap, regardless. He would spend more on a lawyer than taking it off and redoing it.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

My lawyer sent out three cease and desist letters this week to the owners of some other sign companies, and start-up dot com's that stole our artwork. The C&D was also sent to the hosting companies as well, which bear responsibility for showing copyright-infringed artwork on their servers.

I can't keep up with some of the sign folks who blatantly steal our wording as well. Just too many to contact. Supposedly you're supposed to be flattered.

 

[Gino]

Hey Dan.... when the constable showed up yesterday.... we took him across the street and fed him some 'Specials' and a few Jamesons and he told us to forget it.

Then to make things more intreresting..... he ordered some magnetics for his car and we got $39 for the pair and he supplied the design on a flashdrive and the stuff about your site we just covered up on the picture portion.

thanks............. ​

 

[iSign]

...why is this any different than the posts we see about people printing copyrighted material for clients valve covers or video game advertisments for wallpaper?

first, I want to say this thread is great & I too would like to extend my appreciation to our capt design cop, because in this case I think he has done us all a service by helping get this conversation out in front of us with such a current & perfect example. That said, I guess I also owe him a bit of an apology for challenging him over a similar issue the other day.

In response to Dan's comment quoted above, I do not claim to fully understand copyright law, but this thread already serves to help clarify some of that for all of us... nevertheless, I will not speak in terms of legalities I don't claim to understand, but will instead speak in terms of this site, my responses & the responses of others. Why is this (skull wrap) different than clients valve cover & personal wall wraps? To me, it is NOT different than the guy doing his clients valve cover, it is the same, and it is wrong... and if either the skullwrap, or the valve cover wrap were given free, it would still be wrong.. I know this is widely understood & said by many, I'm just stating that I too am aware of this, in agreement with it, and respecting it in daily practice in my business...


...for me, the guy with the wall wrap in his own basement is not the same. Again, I am not claiming that it is legal in that situation. I am stating that my personal level of concern stops in front of that offense, and that is the one I am apologizing to our CopyrightCapt for, because although I found his comments in that thread to be bothersome, he is right to point out this issue, and as I suggested in that thread, I believe starting his own thread about it is the most valuable way to do this. I'm happy to see him do it. I mentioned to him that I speed. My point was that laws are made to be followed, and while I don't agree with every law, I try to follow them all for the most part. Speeding is the biggest exception to that... but putting a copyright image on my kids video room wall would be another.. FOR ME...

so, if I get caught speeding... so be it, I knew the risks... but I don't want to take a rash of s#!t from anyone here about my speeding... (we're not talking in excess of 90 MPH either) and if I got caught with copyright images on my own wall at home.. I'd sure hope it wasn't from some loser rat around here like the one who called a client of mine when I told this site about his cheapshit efforts to avoid paying me.

Anyway, I spent too long writing this during business hours... hopefully it says what I meant in clear enough terms to not be misunderstood..

 

[cptcorn]

Thanks Doug!... No apologies necessary. I just want people to make educated choices and know what they're getting into. What people do in their own home, for themselves, what ever, that's your choice. In this case it was for his own monetary gain, which is unfortunate. Arrogance and ignorance does not hold up in court. It's better to know what you're doing, then to be stupid.

People forget there's such a vast amount artwork out that can possibly be used... Your best bet is to just ask the author. The worst that will happen is they will say no, and you're on your way. This person arrogantly took photos without thinking of the retributions and disregarded rightful ownership.

I have been awarded commercial licenses to artwork by just asking authors. At the very least, pay for a subscription to a stock site photography site that's royalty free based. You may not get the very best photos but there are so many great resources out there that are fairly cheap. A couple hundred dollars spent on the proper artwork saves you a lot more in the long.

It's the people that feel they're entitled to do as they please that hurt us all. Sign industry or not.

 

[Graphics2u]

I mentioned to him that I speed. My point was that laws are made to be followed, and while I don't agree with every law, I try to follow them all for the most part. Speeding is the biggest exception to that... but putting a copyright image on my kids video room wall would be another.. FOR ME...

so, if I get caught speeding... so be it, I knew the risks... but I don't want to take a rash of s#!t from anyone here about my speeding... (we're not talking in excess of 90 MPH either) ..

Doug,
That is a great example.

 

[vinylbarry]

What a eye that was a catch.

With all the sites out there that you can purchase images like istock, dreamstime and so on why do that.

Also Auroa Graphics has a good skull cd?

I have purchased images of dreamstime and make sure there royalty free after purchase some have time and amount of use restrictions but come on.

So is the facebook page for them down now also??
Kindy wanted to take a look.

 

[weaselboogie]

So is the facebook page for them down now also??
Kindy wanted to take a look.

here's 2.. don't expect them to be working too much longer...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3109552&id=218773164929

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3109553&id=218773164929

 

[HotWraps]

I thought I was clever when I spotted the image on the door of the cemetery in iStock photo by searching "cemetery gates". The skulls looked really blown up from a smaller image, but I never would have guessed it came from there.

There is an collection of skulls, its called Digital Skullz from Aurora I believe.

 

[Mosh]

So havs anyone heard from this guy? Is he still on here?

 

[Pat Whatley]

Was about 3:00 today. The guy made a mistake, then got defensive about it on here and apparently somebody got ticked at his attitude and turned him in (pure speculation). I just hope this lesson to us all doesn't destroy the guys business. Hopefully it works out, there's a lesson learned, and everybody can move on.

 

[The Vector Doctor]

Seems like an inappropriate wrap for a chimney company, but maybe that's what the customer wanted

 

[Mader Design]

The picture of the wrap close up looks horrible. The picture is so pixelated that I couldn't image anyone happy upon inspecting it. Maybe from about 50 ft away it looks good, but that will all change soon, when he has to remove the wrap and redo it, if, the client lets him.

Are clients liable for an artist like this producing work from copyright material?

 

[threeputt]

"Can't you just download it?" I must hear that ten times a week.

I tell people we purchase our art, illustration and photos from istockphoto.com. (I know, I know, you only purchase a license to use it)

But they always come back with, "hey, no need to do that, I'll just Google it and bring it in on Monday".

Like that makes it okay. Them doing it and handing it to me. (it's always a 72dpi, inch by inch and a half photo.) Totally useless. Idiots.

This has been a good thread.

 

[Mosh]

Just think of all the cast the creator of Calvin lost out on!!!!! Don't think he even visioned him peeing on stuff though.....

 

[BadAss]

I am not saying it is O.K., But EVERYONE on this boards breaks the law....The only thing is how you feel about doing it. Either you didn't know or the law is old and doesn't really apply today (however it is still the law) or you think that whatever law is petty and don't care. Bottom line EVERYONE breaks the law...

'But these so-called minor crimes are committed so regularly they have almost become legal, which seems to be the reason so many people aren't fazed when they do break the law.'

Enlarge The poll of 5,000 men and women found the average person admitted to around seven offences a week.

It revealed speeding as the most common crime, with almost half - 46 per cent - admitting to driving over the speed limit.

Another 40 per cent confessed to texting or chatting on their mobile while behind the wheel.

A further 36 per cent said that they drop litter in the street, while around 35 per cent download music illegally.

More than a third have cycled on pavements instead of on the road, 29 per cent admitted eating and drinking while driving and a quarter have had sex in a public place.
Another 24 per cent say they park on a pavement to protect their car. Nineteen per cent take drugs and 18 per cent admitted to not wearing their seatbelt.

Other crimes committed on a daily basis include parking on double yellow lines, driving through red lights and carrying a weapon.

Mr Sewell added: 'Some of these crimes might seem petty but they were all made illegal for a reason.

'Most people wouldn't dream of stealing something from a shop but this research proves that some crimes have become normal everyday activities for many .'

 

[noregrets]

"Can't you just download it?" I must hear that ten times a week.

I tell people we purchase our art, illustration and photos from istockphoto.com. (I know, I know, you only purchase a license to use it)

But they always come back with, "hey, no need to do that, I'll just Google it and bring it in on Monday".

Like that makes it okay. Them doing it and handing it to me. (it's always a 72dpi, inch by inch and a half photo.) Totally useless. Idiots.

This has been a good thread.

Yeah we get this a lot too - have far to often had to deal with a grumpy client because I refused to print clearly copyright material - even when they have provided an alternative "I will get another one from google then" - also copyright.

I think there is a strong need for education in the basics of copyright law, not just to professionals, but to Joe Blogs as well. People just dont seem to get it. Over the last decade there has been plenty of debate with music and movies over the internet, but not so much with images/photos/art.

This has been a very interesting thread...

 

[TheSnowman]

You think LifetimeChimneySupply.com has any idea? How is the client going to feel when he has to remove the wrap?

That's what you get for having more "creativity" than the other company that was gonna get the job.

 

[Grafix USA]

I'm not defending this guy, but doesn't he have a provision under fair use to create new unique works of art.

How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission?
Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See FL 102, Fair Use, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians.

How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent. See Circular 14, Copyright Registration for Derivative Works.

Fair Use Q&A per the US Copyright Office: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html