Intellectual Property and Copyright Theft In Our Industry.

[stickasteve]

What I did was very wrong, and I learned quite a bit about copyright infringement. I learned a few things actually...

I have typed this many times already, and the past 2 days have been making me sick because not only is there little work coming in, but now I have to worry about a lawsuit and actually losing my business while having a baby on the way. Yes... It IS my own fault and I made a terrible mistake.

The worst part about it is knowing I am a good man and my wife tells me I'm a good man, but to look in the mirror and say... Well am I??.... THAT truly sucks. No one here knows me personally, and now I don't even know if anyone here cares, but I AM a good man. I am a good man with a big heart with a family and a home. I liked coming here to see what people showed, because no matter what you all think of me now, I am ALWAYS pushing myself to do better as a business man and an artist and I always ask how'd they do that?.

I see Fellers and everyone else's prices on clipart images, and I have to ask myself... Do I buy the clipart or pay the electric bill? How many people here have been in this situation before:

The phone hasn't wrang more than twice a day in the past few months, the bills are backing up.. credit card companies calling... supply houses calling.... and this person comes in....
Thanks for coming in sir/mam this is my price for that wrap... Thanks buddy but I see your work and I want to give you ALL of my business but the guy over here will sell the wrap to me for this much, and that's a couple of hundred bucks less than you are... sir/mam do you understand this guy works out of his house and wraps in his driveway, and what we are charging you for pays for the CORRECT way for us to do your job?.... Times are tight these days sign guy... I need to keep all the pennies I have.... end....???? What do you do when you are in that situation?

Maybe I'm the only one. I don't want to go out of business, so unfortunately I have to take that job because I am still in the beginning stages of business. Obviously what I did was wrong, and against the law, and I WILL have to pay for it no matter what. I've never been looked at as an outcast, or a hack, or an art theif before, but I can tell you all... You don't want this. I take great pride in what I do, and yes... there are times when I lack the talent, or the time, or the skills, or the resources to finish a job that is paying my bills, so I go to the internet for help. I DO THIS. Right, wrong or indifferent I have a family to provide for and that is what is most important to me.

SOMEONE ratted me out in my own "community" to make an example of me, and they did. EVERYTHING on the internet is traceable. That was another lesson I learned. I guess I'm the only one who has made something for someone else weather it is a vinyl decal, a wall graphic, or a vehicle wrap that involved a part of someone else's art. Or I am simply the guy who got caught.

If you care about your community and you want to help them... GET TO KNOW THEM and then form your own opinion of what they stand for before you bash their character. That shit hurts guys.

If you want to know me and what I stand for, then pick up the phone... The way we help each other is by pointing fingers? If that is how THIS community helps out is less stronger members then I don't want to be part of it.

I did a very amateur thing people, but to the people I did it for, they thought it was an amazing job... Now I know where I stand, and thanks for the reality check.

Where do I go from here? One day at a time. Our past shows where we've been, and explains why we are the way we are, and we choose today to learn from the past so hopefully we don't make the same mistake in the future. I didn't have to post this at all, but I did because I have to do what makes me happy and my family proud. I am a man and I admit... I f*cked up.

STW will be back, better, and changed, and so will I.

 

[Checkers]

Man, this is going to be one helluva education for the infringer!

Ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law and we, as professionals, should know better. Just do a search here and see how many times this has been discussed.

If the photographer actually registered the photo in question with the copyright office, the offending sign company can be in a world of hurt. And, considering the current economy, he probably will be forced to close his doors. Don't believe me? Check this out...

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#504

So, even if you don't charge for a project, you can still be held liable for willful infringement and subject to fines and penalties up to $150,000 per violation.


However,, even before a judgment is reached, you may be forced into bankruptcy trying to fight a battle you'll probably loose...

http://www.ap.org/iprights/fairey.html

Now imagine the the cost of his legal defense.


Unless you or your client creates the original art, there is still a (slim) chance the clip-art you're using is not properly licensed and/or released. If so, you, as the business owner, can be liable for unauthorized reproduction of copyright protected art. Just take the time to read the EULA of any "stock" photo or clip-art agreement and see what I mean. Especially pay attention to any release of liability and indemnification clauses.

The advantage of running a sign business with electronic art and digital printing has greatly increased the production capabilities and profits for its owners. But, it also significantly increased the amount of liability the business can be exposed to overall. Not only do we need to protect ourselves from physical liability, such as signs falling down, electrocutions, etc., we also need to be aware of intellectual property rights and liabilities associated with.

The cost of running a sign/graphics business (or any business) is expensive these days. When I read/hear about these newbies charging dirt cheap prices for their work, I just have to laugh because I know they either don't have a clue on how to run a business or they're doing something either unlawful. And, no matter what, they won't be around very long.

Finally, on a personal note, I really hope the infringer is incorporated or poor because, as a sole proprietor or partnership, all of the owners personal assets are considered business property and can be confiscated and used to settle any judgment against the business.

Checkers

 

[Checkers]

Steve,
I see you posted while I was replying. I sincerely wish you the best of luck with this situation and hope it works out for you.

Checkers

 

[andy]

I've been in the same position regarding Dan and online content many times and it sucks.

There are many images which we made specifically for online use, we bought raw materials, spent time on design and then produced a complete, real life product to photograph... all out of our own pocket.

How do you think I am going to react when I see my investment in intellectual property slapped over your website promoting your business? Am I going to care how tough your life is or am I going to focus on the fact that you deliberately chose to steal from me?

If you don't want to get the financial $hit kicked out of you for stealing other peoples intellectual property and copyrighted content it really is quite easy...... resist the urge to use the CUT N PASTE function on your web browser at all costs... simple.

All online content belongs to someone.... it hasn't been created for you to take as and when you feel like it... remember this and you won't have a problem.

 

[R08]

On a side note. Istock is an excellent and relatively cheap way of getting great photos. Also saves a LOT of time sifting through junk on google.

 

[BadAss]

I feel for you Steve, and it "IS" a mistake that everyone has made here. I hope it all comes out in the wash my friend...M*

 

[jiarby]

Finally, on a personal note, I really hope the infringer is incorporated or poor because, as a sole proprietor or partnership, all of the owners personal assets are considered business property and can be confiscated and used to settle any judgment against the business.

Yep! If he can't buy a clip art CD then he can't defend a lawsuit either. Sounds like it wouldn't take too more than a couple of hours of lawyers fees to put this guy into a Chapter 7 proceeding.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

StickaSteve let me assure you that you are not alone.

harley davidson has shut down more than a couple sign companies as well as John Deere, Jack Daniels and Nascar just to name a few. For anyone who sells items of that nature it is only a matter of time until they come knocking .. all of those companies have legal teams that actively search for people who are using their image without permission.

and there are members of this forum who have websites that advertise decals for sale for all of those companies that i just mentioned. i simply do not understand why anyone would take that risk.

in addition power companies across the nation as well as phone and internet providers own or have shut down more sign companies than they want to for people who have chosen not to hire a locator before digging.

if you are going to make the choice to cut corners you eventually are going to pay a price...what is the saying you can pay me now or you can pay me later.

we have multiple members of this site (including myself) who have posted photos of projects that they have completed or projects that they are working on, or simply discussions about a project or experience with a client only to have members of this forum contact said clients to notify them of a discussion that...well they shouldn't have been alerted to.

every member of this forum produces unique, custom products for their clients. many of us have had our work stolen. it sucks. what i do not understand is knowing that all of us in this trade produce custom projects there are so many people within our trade who see no value in the work that others have created, to the extent that we have had members make jokes about stealing other's creations and flat out saying 'bring on the lawyers'...

it is unfortunate that you are in this situation and i hope that you are able to work things out. but i find it amazing that you blame this forum for something you chose to do.

 

[CES020]

SOMEONE ratted me out in my own "community" to make an example of me, and they did. EVERYTHING on the internet is traceable. That was another lesson I learned. I guess I'm the only one who has made something for someone else weather it is a vinyl decal, a wall graphic, or a vehicle wrap that involved a part of someone else's art. Or I am simply the guy who got caught.

If you care about your community and you want to help them... GET TO KNOW THEM and then form your own opinion of what they stand for before you bash their character. That shit hurts guys.

If you want to know me and what I stand for, then pick up the phone... The way we help each other is by pointing fingers? If that is how THIS community helps out is less stronger members then I don't want to be part of it.

I hope you can recover from this and it all gets settled in a way that doesn't cause you to go out of business. However, I had a really hard time getting the feeling that you do get it now. Look at the first line in this quote. "SOMEONE ratted me out".

Ratted you out? Ummm Steve, that would be YOU. YOU posted the work, YOU admitted you snatched the images off the internet for free, you were told it was wrong, and YOU defended your actions saying YOU didn't care.

Sir, the rat is YOU, not someone on this forum that may or may not have emailed the photo owner. Blaming someone else for your situation in one breath and then saying it's all your fault in the next breath. I don't know which one it is. Is it YOUR fault or is it the fault of the person that "ratted" you out? Because I can't tell which side you're on from your post. If you honestly believe that anyone had anything to do with this other than you, then, in my opinion, you still don't get it.

Maybe I read your post wrong, but I found it to be a very hard read that was full of contradictions. And what's with the "feed my family" lines? Do you know how many people here wonder how to pay the bills as well, yet still do the right thing? If things are so tight, go get a part time job and support your family. Using your logic, it would be okay for me to sell drugs to children if I needed the money to put food on the table.

This community DID try to get to know you and you thumbed your nose at them and told them you didn't care about their advice or opinions.

Just the view from my seat.

 

[weaselboogie]

If you honestly believe that anyone had anything to do with this other than you, then, in my opinion, you still don't get it.

.

I think the ONLY reason that steve is NOW apologetic is because he may lose his ass. His tone was completely different when the original thread was posted and told everyone to sod off , 'everyone does this, nobody gets caught' attitude. I would have been a bit more sympathetic had he realized and tried to correct his mistake from the get-go.

 

[phototec]

Pile of skulls photo on Photobucket

Isn't this the same pile of skulls photo on Photobucket, I believe you can down-load it from here?

http://media.photobucket.com/image/pile of skulls/Noktiferus/pile_of_skulls_2.jpg

 

[jiarby]

you can get it lots of places, none any more legal than the other. If you steal it from a guy whom is also stealing it then it is still stolen!

 

[Patrick46]

Only a few years back a local 70+ year old man who's legally blind that devoted his entire life working on Corvettes was taken away in cuffs at an auto show in PA for airbrushing Corvette t-shirts. he lost his business, house etc.

I don't recall if he recieved a prison sentence at the time, but that could certainly happen now.

Hmmmmmmmm...I think I'm gonna call b*llsh*t on this.
(I'm sitting here in SingSing on a 3-5 for airbrushing t-shirts with 'Vette's on 'em) Nahhhh!

They would have shown him a legal paper, shut him down on the spot, maybe even confiscated his wares, and saw him in court on Monday morning...but they would not have 'cuffed him and taken him away.

As for Steve losing his business over this, well I kinda doubt that, but he's going to have a nice hole to dig out of before this is over. I'll bet he survives over time... (with a whole new perspective...that's for sure)

 

[royster13]

A quick Google search lead me to enough news stories about folks being arrested for selling counterfeit goods to make the above post quite possible.....

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

Patrick i don't know...i think it depends on the situation, i think it depends on the company that has been ripped off. i have been present at a flea market as they went from stall to stall arresting people for selling fake gucci bags, illegal duplicated cds and here it comes....signs advertising a popular brand that apparently sells well at flea markts and swap meets...can you guess the company? lol

i do not know how it works but it was a well orchestrated, methodical bust going from booth to booth taking photos and video, confiscating goods into bins marked with what i would assume were corresponding case numbers and slapping a pair of silver bracelets on the owners of the property. my guess is that what i witnessed was a well planned bust with lots of prior planning and collection of evidence as they had previously shut down many vendors in a much less dramatic and severe fashion only to have many of them sprout back up. whatever the case it sure didnt look like fun.

 

[Grafix USA]

A quick Google search lead me to enough news stories about folks being arrested for selling counterfeit goods to make the above post quite possible.....

When arrests occur for counterfeit items, it is related to the import of prohibited items (violation of Customs laws) and the falsification of Federal documents. In a situation like mentioned in the Corvette story, the most that would happen is infringed itmes would be confiscated and he would subject to civil penalties, this case would not be a criminal activity unless he violated a court order. I wouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

As far as the OP I will give him benefit of the doubt regarding his attitude change. We have all had to learn about copyrights and trademarks over the years, his story just got a lot more attention. I would guess that negotiations with the photographer could yield a situation that won't cost him a small fortune. He may lose on the wrap deal financially, but I'm sure it could be worked out. An attitude of contrition can go a long way when dealing with someone. I don't think beating up on him any longer serves a purpose.

Bottom line, create designs yourself or use iStock, Corbis, etc. and you will always be safe. If you have a specific need you can always ask an artist or photographer to create exactly what you want.

 

[Grafix USA]

Patrick i don't know...i think it depends on the situation, i think it depends on the company that has been ripped off. i have been present at a flea market as they went from stall to stall arresting people for selling fake gucci bags, illegal duplicated cds and here it comes....signs advertising a popular brand that apparently sells well at flea markts and swap meets...can you guess the company? lol

i do not know how it works but it was a well orchestrated, methodical bust going from booth to booth taking photos and video, confiscating goods into bins marked with what i would assume were corresponding case numbers and slapping a pair of silver bracelets on the owners of the property. my guess is that what i witnessed was a well planned bust with lots of prior planning and collection of evidence as they had previously shut down many vendors in a much less dramatic and severe fashion only to have many of them sprout back up. whatever the case it sure didnt look like fun.

This is the public part of a very long investigation that has genearlly determined that they are also the importers and those that have violated the Federal laws. LAPD, SFPD and NYPD all have special units that work with the Customs and Border Patrol and FBI to put these cases together. In my previous life, I was involved in one of these raids in the San Francisco Bay Area and it looked like we just showed up and made an arrest, but there was much more to it. No employees were arrested, just those involved in importing.

 

[royster13]

I am not 100% convinced that all arrests I have read about have imports and/or fabrication of Federal documents in them....There were a number of stories about local screen printers selling tees after the local team won some championship and/or knocking off a singers images to sell outside their concerts.....So there must be something criminal in their activities....

Also, I came across this site today.... http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/taxonomy/term/374

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

Grafix in the event i witnessed there was an individual arrested who had a plotter set up and was manufacturing signs on site with a banner set up with a huge variety of logos available for client selection. as i said it was obvious that it was a well planned orchestrated planned out event and as i said my guess is that it had something to do with prior less public 'busts' not ending the problem. i have no idea about the importing end of it that makes sense with videos, gucci bags, socks and underwear (someone got busted for phoney balogne fruit of the loom socks and underwear)...but again the signs and decals were being cut and weeded on location.

every sign guy i know in the area could not believe how cavalier this individual was. i have encountered MANY people that are under the impression that because they purchased a collection on ebay or even from highly respected resellers and creators such as the corporate collection that was once availalbe from allied (i do not believe it is still available)...that the purchase gave them the right to reproduce those images. i can not tell you how many people i have encountered that have honestly believed that.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Well I can tell you for certain and for sure that a local was arrested here years ago when the Gerber Edge was a hot new item for selling Time Warner cartoon characters. A buy was made and the next day the Sheriff arrested the shop owner and a number of months later his shop was sold at a sheriff's sale.