Is customer trying to scam me?

[HDvinyl]

Maybe they thought they were in the new Amazon Go store and you ran their credit card when they walked out.

Who doesn't collect payment at time of pickup or shipment??

Not even a deposit?

 

[Modern Ink Signs]

Sound to me like they don’t want to pay.

Wish you the best of luck. If it is worth it to you based on what they owe, contact a lawyer.

 

[Marlene]

Two months and they haven't paid for these? That seems to be more of an issue than the problems with the signs. How did they get out the door with signs for temporty use without paying? Sounds more like a scam and they just want what they got for free.

 

[TimToad]

Since they have an outstanding balance of a large amount, I would ask exactly how many yard signs need replaced and whip them up in perfect condition and deliver them, asking for unpaid balance and explaining in the future you will need the defective signs returned, a photo will not be acceptable, he would need the signs to get out of paying for them in court. Those signs were stored stacked together in a hot car or building, guaranteed.

I wouldn't waste one more drop of ink or material chasing this dead horse. The OP made his bed by taking on a huge job without a deposit, now he or she needs to cut their losses, go file in small claims court and prepare their argument.

They've proved their lack of ethics by not complaining right away, not bringing any of the signs back and definitely by destroying them. Next year, they will go find another vendor and likely do the same thing to them.

We all need to tighten our processes and be especially aware of temporary businesses, politicians, etc.

We live and work in a region that an have temperature swings of 50-60 degrees each day and summertime highs over 110. We had a realtor get about a dozen 18"x30" ACM signs from the previous owner in 2012 two years before we took over. In 2016, she sent her husband in WITHOUT the signs and wanted them replaced for free and claimed they had never been used and warped. We asked how they were stored and why it took so long to make contact about a warranty that was never implied or offered by the previous owner ( we asked him about it ). They had stood them up lengthwise and leaned them against the wall in their garage. The one sign he had brought in had obviously been used.

We declined to offer to redo them and he stormed off knowing he was dealing with folks who hadn't been born in a cabbage patch and knew a scam when we saw one.

 

[Pauly]

Sorry i didn't go though all the comments, Usually i would.

What id do is request them to bring back the signs and inspect it yourself. Use a loop and you'll determine if they're stains or printed ink from the printer. You'll obviously see the dot pattern from the printer.
If you can prove it's not your fault, then i'd be demanding payment, getting law involved (how ever it works over there)

 

[TimToad]

Sorry i didn't go though all the comments, Usually i would.

What id do is request them to bring back the signs and inspect it yourself. Use a loop and you'll determine if they're stains or printed ink from the printer. You'll obviously see the dot pattern from the printer.
If you can prove it's not your fault, then i'd be demanding payment, getting law involved (how ever it works over there)

I wouldn't hold one's breath on them bringing back anything.

They threw out some bait and hoped that the same kind of trust and good faith that a sign company who wouldn't demand a deposit or payment upon completion would work again and thankfully the OP's scam radar went up before they got doubly screwed over. I have no doubt that issues this evident if a printing issue would NEVER be allowed to leave the shop by the OP.

 

[Billct2]

Weird issue, only on the white not on the ink? Anyhow since they are obviously trying to burn you and they still owe a large sum, I would ask how many were bad and start the negotiation with and offer of 50% credit for the bad ones towards their next order. And then change the policy to payment on delivery

 

[Gino]

First of all, I don't know of many businesses that will allow a customer to take merchandise out of a store, unpaid. Next, to use something for 2 months and not a single comment..... good or bad, let alone a complaint ??

I hope you learned a lesson to get deposits and balance upon completion..... as this one is gonna be hard to collect, unless you do something like I did just the other day.

Around Christmas, an ex-employee walked in with his boss and asked if we could do some vinyl on a car he brought with him. Sure. We did the work and it took about 30 minutes, and I told the bossman, I'd send him a bill with his e-mail address. Now, this was a large car dealership, so I was willing to wait a few days. We made several calls and this numbnuts would not return our calls. Just so happened last week, I was picking something up at a farmer's market and saw the ex-employee. I asked him what was up with his boss and he gave me some dumb excuse. I said, then tell him tomorrow for me, I will be coming over Friday to collect my money one way or another.

Got the check by Friday...... with a little extra compensation in it. Someone put it in the crack of our front door at the shop, probably Thursday night.

I don't know if you're big or have some muscle friends, but something like this is not at all professional and they are calling your bluff, so either play the same frickin' game back or be prepared to go to a long drawn out court for...... he said this, they said that, I thought this and that and a judge who will just say..... cut your losses and cut the deal in half for both parties.​

 

[papabud]

well gino, that didnt end the way i expected your story to end.
i kind of figured you saw him at the farmers market and found the car in the parking lot and repo'ed the graphics

 

[czar2178]

well this sucks for sure, we have a ton of big clients and they are on terms because we do a credit check, and make them sign a paper for the terms. Its a big hassle getting your money sometimes and over the years we have moved away from Terms for almost everyone with the exception of a few. I would am very curious to see what the outcome with be for you hopefully you get your money but doesn't look good.

FYI i have went directly to my customers in the past face to face and MADE them give me my money on the spot. (I am a big guy Gino LOL)

 

[equippaint]

You can try to have an attorney write a demand letter but if the customer responds saying there's a warranty issue, you are not going to get very far. Court is expensive and a hassle (including small claims) and this claimed dispute they have will be an issue in mediation. Call them up, call them out then have the attorney write a letter. If all else fails, send mr muscles Gino over. They may pay you twice!

 

[Mainframe]

I wouldn't waste one more drop of ink or material chasing this dead horse. The OP made his bed by taking on a huge job without a deposit, now he or she needs to cut their losses, go file in small claims court and prepare their argument.

They've proved their lack of ethics by not complaining right away, not bringing any of the signs back and definitely by destroying them. Next year, they will go find another vendor and likely do the same thing to them.

We all need to tighten our processes and be especially aware of temporary businesses, politicians, etc.

We live and work in a region that an have temperature swings of 50-60 degrees each day and summertime highs over 110. We had a realtor get about a dozen 18"x30" ACM signs from the previous owner in 2012 two years before we took over. In 2016, she sent her husband in WITHOUT the signs and wanted them replaced for free and claimed they had never been used and warped. We asked how they were stored and why it took so long to make contact about a warranty that was never implied or offered by the previous owner ( we asked him about it ). They had stood them up lengthwise and leaned them against the wall in their garage. The one sign he had brought in had obviously been used.

We declined to offer to redo them and he stormed off knowing he was dealing with folks who hadn't been born in a cabbage patch and knew a scam when we saw one.

In court the first thing they are gonna ask is "Did you offer to redo the signs?, if you reply, yes I not only offered, but I did replace them, the money will be awarded. You have to figure out a way to get paid for this job without court, opening dialog, offering to replace signs, speaking to the "man in charge"/owner, and I do agree, GET A DEPOSIT!"

If someone writes a check for half down, normally the boss has to sign it, this locks in the agreement to start the project.
It makes it a lot easier to get paid.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

What is the percentage of the coro's compared to what the rest is they owe? If it's something really small then forget about them and collect the rest. Tell them, I'll give those to you if you pay your balance right now. Then next year build that in. Do what you can to collect what you can right now! Learn from this and never do it again.

All the talk about small claims and all that, that really doesn't help much. If and after you "win", that's just a license to hunt. You STILL have to collect.

You probably didn't damage those signs, but you did let big $$ walk out the door and it's 2 months old.. much bigger mistake.

 

[TimToad]

In court the first thing they are gonna ask is "Did you offer to redo the signs?, if you reply, yes I not only offered, but I did replace them, the money will be awarded. You have to figure out a way to get paid for this job without court, opening dialog, offering to replace signs, speaking to the "man in charge"/owner, and I do agree, GET A DEPOSIT!"

If someone writes a check for half down, normally the boss has to sign it, this locks in the agreement to start the project.
It makes it a lot easier to get paid.

We'll have to agree to disagree except on the part about making sure deposits and qualified purchasers signatures are on work orders or agreements. The client has shown its true colors. All the capitulation, negotiating from a position of weakness, offers to redo non-existent, unverified damaged signs will not compel a client with no ethics to suddenly develop them this far after the fact.

As TexasSignmaker correctly stated, getting the judgement only empowers you to try and collect. This type of client probably has done this before and knows the ins and outs of evading payment. Chasing bad money with more good money, labor and materials will only result in losing even more money.

I'll stand by my 38 years in the craft and having seen this type of cretin before as the basis of my opinion.

 

[Chop Chop]

If this was indeed from stacking the signs, was there any expectation that the customer thought they could do this and the signs would be fine? That's about the only semi-valid point they might have but it still doesn't add up since they threw them out after using for 2 months. Who does that? It's like eating the whole steak at a restaurant and then demanding it to be free because it wasn't cooked right.

However it turns out perhaps your best course would be to refuse their business in the future and refine your payment policy. Best of luck.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

No laminate on these signs. Just solvent-printed IJ-35.

This is 100% ink transfer from signs being stacked. Normally laminate prevents this from happening. This is not a printing issue. The only way you could have caused this is by not slip sheeting between the sign faces. If you used slip sheets, this is 100% on the customer.

Chances are you're not going to get your money back on these signs. If they refuse to pay, your best case scenario is a scary letter from a lawyer that's going to cost you a couple hundred bucks (at least).

 

[GAC05]

See if you can get them to pay the whole invoice with an offer of a negotiated store credit on the signs they had issues with.
When it comes time for them to claim the store credit explain that you stacked all their emails in one pile and they got stuck together - you ended up having to throw them all away and no longer have a record of the offered credit.....

wayne k
guam usa

 

[tulsagraphics]

Wow. A lot more replies than I expected. Giving me plenty to think about!

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I usually don't have problems getting paid. Most of my clients are made up of long time repeat clients (universities, utility companies, municipalities, museums/galleries and other well-established organizations). In my experience, they are all good at paying their bills (as long as I stand behind my work -- and I do). A handful of my clients are mom n' pop shops, and they can be slow to pay sometimes, so I try to keep those types of accounts to a minimum. (I discourage walk-ins by keeping my doors locked 24/7). Admittedly, my invoicing/collection procedures have always been pretty relaxed (probably too relaxed at times), but if I decide to take on a new customer then I do charge them in advance (or at least 50%) to be on the safe side. Credit terms are only extended to clients who have proved their worth.

This particular client (visitor's center) has been purchasing signs and banners from me for the past few years. Never any problems from them, and I know some of the staff from when they were employed elsewhere (nice people), so I wasn't worried. Their job was sort of unusual because they didn't order everything at once. They mostly knew what they wanted, but a lot of it was ordered in batches over the course of several weeks (which was expected) as they sold more sponsorships or found more places to put banners / wayfinding signs / etc. Then their event got delayed by a few weeks because the weather was too warm, so their last few batches of signs extended the project a while longer. I waited until the last batch of signs was ordered and delivered before billing them with their usual 30 day term invoice (probably not the best idea). But then they waited 3 weeks after the invoice was sent before submitting their first complaint (e.g. the yard sign issue and general nitpicking). So that's how we ended up with basically 2 months of no payment. The visitor's center is closely tied to the Chamber of Commerce, and I think it could be a PR problem for them if they don't pay. Not sure how this is going to play out, but I spoke with my attorney a few days ago. I have everything extremely well documented if I have to take them to small claims court. Fingers crossed!

 

[tulsagraphics]

explain that you stacked all their emails in one pile and they got stuck together - you ended up having to throw them all away and no longer have a record of the offered credit.....

I like it! lol!

 

[HDvinyl]

See if you can get them to pay the whole invoice with an offer of a negotiated store credit on the signs they had issues with.
When it comes time for them to claim the store credit explain that you stacked all their emails in one pile and they got stuck together - you ended up having to throw them all away and no longer have a record of the offered credit.....

wayne k
guam usa

You forgot the picture as proof.