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Suggestions Issues with peeling vinyl on signs

Discussion in 'Product and Supplier Referrals' started by Ash86, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Ash86

    Ash86 New Member

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    Hello, I work at a sign shop. We are currently having issues with some of our signs being brought back after a year or 2 because of the vinyl peeling off of the edges of them. We are using 3M™ IJ35C Scotchcal with Comply Graphic Film with over laminate and it is being applied to Palight Trimboard (PVC type material). I clean the surface using 70% isopropyl alcohol and am very thorough about any particles being wiped off before application. After application and trimming, I go over it with a heat gun and squeegee the edges really well. This leads me to believe that maybe the issue is the materials. I haven't noticed peeling issues when we use the 3M IJ35C on ACM board as of yet, only the PVC signs have been brought back so far. It's crossed my mind that it could be the fact that it's an air release vinyl that may be the problem since previously we were using an Oracal non-air release vinyl for these signs and never had any issue with peeling even after several years. Does anyone have any experience or suggestions on what could be the issue here or what kind of vinyl I could buy instead of the 3M IJ35C. Our printer is a Mimaki CJV30-100 and uses Eco-solvent inks.

    Thanks in advance! :)
     
  2. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    I think with the combination of air release and the matt like finish of the Palight it is not getting a good bond as it would on a "slick" surface like ACM material which air release sticks good.
     
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  3. Asuma01

    Asuma01 Member

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    IJ35C is a low quality short term vinyl. I always had problems with longevity of the adhesive or the material will shrink causing problems.
    I switched to 3M 40c-20r. Its a much better allrounder vinyl imo. not perfect... but way less problems then when I used 35c.
     
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  4. Ash86

    Ash86 New Member

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    I've noticed it shrinks too, even if I printed something and then just let it sit for a few days before applying it to anything. Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into the 3M 40c - 20r :)
     
  5. GaSouthpaw

    GaSouthpaw Active Member

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    Also, shelf life plays a part (2 years for IJ35). The "life" of IJ35 is 5 years. Unprinted. Once you print it and laminate it, that warranty won't be good for much more than 2 or 3 additional years (couldn't track down a specific number). Being MCS certified gives you the most "robust" backing as far as 3M warranties. I know Avery has their own very of a certified warranty, but I'm not recalling the name.
    As for edge lit, you could wrap the edges and stick the vinyl to itself. That's not going to change the life of the media, but it might give you a little more life.
     
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  6. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    What thickness Palight? PVC expands and contracts, but the thicker it is, the more stable it is.
    I haven't used Palight type material in a long time, so things may have changed, we never used it outdoors with any guarantee,
    it's sold strictly as a temporary sign & there's no way I would replace them after 2 years.
    Also, there's no need to heat the edges, you might be causing issues by doing that... if anything, I would lightly scour and clean with alcohol where the edges will be to take any shine off.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
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  7. a77

    a77 Member

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    I've seen the opposite. IJ40 has way less tack as it is removable. IJ35 sticks good, real good.
    If the IJ35 is working good for your ACP panels, I would say it's the surface of the PVC that might be giving you problems (which was mentioned above).
     
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  8. Andy D

    Andy D Very Active Member

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    Agreed, for the last few years, IJ-35 is pretty much all I keep in stock, because 90% of my stuff is for contractor type stuff that doesn't need to last forever & I have
    never had an issue with it peeling... I highly doubt it's the vinyl.
     
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  9. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    even though IJ35 is "cheap", I'd still put it in the 5yr category (as do many suppliers)
    failure in the 1-2year range would be result of heavy ink limits on a cut line or too much tension on your lamination web that causes the calendared overlaminate to stretch prior to it applying to the media.... thus stretching a stretched vinyl in the final stage of production and causing it to shrink & lift at the edges while exposed to the elements.

    that is, assuming you actually APPLIED the vinyl and didn't just simply slap it on & send it out. i'll even go as far as to post-head controltac applications, just to make sure I didn't miss a spot.
     
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  10. Ash86

    Ash86 New Member

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    we use 12-13mm thick Palight
     
  11. 2B

    2B Very Active Member

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    What type of print coverage do you have?
    Full Bleed to the edge?
    What about ink saturation?

    The more ink you have, the more the edges will "pull"

    PVC is a "porous" & "low energy" substrate and this does not help.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  12. JRedmer

    JRedmer New Member

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    This is not uncommon. You should be using a vinyl intended for low surface energy substrates. 3M180LSE or Arlon DPF8000...there are a lot of choices. On plastics, a workaround is to heat the area where the vinyl is being applied. This can be done with a torch or a heat gun if you have one that gets hot enough. Flame usually works best. You heat the plastic until it starts to "wet out", or turns glossy. Then you can apply almost any vinyl and it will stick for a looong time! :)
     
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  13. SamP

    SamP New Member

    It is possible the problem is with your ink. If you start using an after market product, cheaper ink so to say, can cause all kinds of problems. In addition, poor quality ink as well as good quality ink require time to "dry" before you mount. Otherwise the vinyl could lift at the edges. Since this has happened after a couple of years, it maybe due to the laminate stretching and pulling the vinyl as well being both on PVC, the material that does not expand or shrink much.
     
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  14. Ash86

    Ash86 New Member

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    Aug 20, 2020
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    Thanks, everyone for your advice. I believe our main issue was the laminator. It seemed as though the tension was set too high so we've adjusted this. We also had peeling issues with some vehicle graphics so I don't believe the problem was solely with the PVC board although you guys made a good point about the vinyl not sticking as well to this type of material, that totally makes sense. It was also mentioned that maybe using too much ink could be the issue so I'm going to adjust this as well. I guess I'll know in a year or 2 if these changes have made a difference lol. Thanks again! :)
     
  15. Jester1167

    Jester1167 Premium Subscriber

    Don't forget to clean it after flame/corona treatment. You are drawing the plasticizers to the surface and you need to get them off before installing the vinyl.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. danno

    danno Member

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    If the PVC has a protective film over the top, you might want to remove it the night before the installation. We had a similar issue. When we contacted the manufacture, they recommended to let it breath overnight.
     
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