Just got the Roland Tru VIS MG UV, considering air scrubber for smell does it work?

[Notarealsignguy]

You also need to remember, as Johnny said, smell isn't the indicator of danger. Many dangerous chemical compounds have no smell, like isocyanates. It's absorbed through your skin, your eyes and respiration but there is no smell, no burn, no nausea, no headaches, basically no indicators that it is hurting you until you get sensitized. At that point, you can kiss your career goodbye because your body will not be able to tolerate it anymore in even in the most minute quantity.

 

[balstestrat]

If you are worried about the ink on captops etc. think what it does when it's printing and carriage is flying around constantly spraying ink everywhere. There is always some microscopic spray that escapes and the fans spin it in the air.

 

[DL Signs]

The old mercury arc lamps caused the ozone issue, they also released mercury into the environment. The heat those lamps generated also caused out-gassing of substrates you were printing to. LED lamps pretty much eliminated that part, but... Modern inks are lower VOC than they once were, but not non-VOC, and still rather toxic. The UV ink curing process also draws oxygen out of the environment, so use in confined, unventilated spaces isn't reccomended in my book. The worst thing you can do is come in direct contact with uncured UV inks, because yes, they will absorb through skin, and build up a systemic sensitivity, so always use gloves for cleaning, maintenance, etc.

Years ago I had one of the first Acuity x2's, you could load half the bed while the other half was printing, so it could run non-stop, and it got bad. We had a 1,200sf print room with a total of 4 printers in it. The room and my office were sealed off to keep the the environment contained & clean, we started with three hanging air scrubbers, plus the exhaust fan that was in the room when we got into the UV's, wasn't close to enough. So we added a dedicated HVAC system with fresh air intake, waterfall humidifier, and electrostatic filtration. Air dampers controlled exhaust, and a single floor return to maintain pressure in the room. The air was always being refreshed. Still wasn't completely odor free when it was done, but it wasn't irritating, didn't get headaches, only bothered people who came in that didn't "like the smell"... Most prominent smell after it was complete was that ozone-ish odor from those old arc curing lamps when they were running full power. You'll never be 100% odor free when using any chemical, safe or not, open a jug of iso (or a good bottle of bourbon) and the room will smell like alcohol, but mitigating as much of the bad stuff as you can is what it's about.

The HVAC was still being installed in this pic, when it was done the air scrubbers were relocated to pull directly away from printers and shoot towards the exhaust end to maximize their efficiency. I was there for over 15 years, a decade or more since these upgrades were made to run UV's, and still have no sensitivity issues to UV inks. It probably wasn't perfect, but I'll call it a win.

 

[White Haus]

So we added a dedicated HVAC system with fresh air intake, waterfall humidifier, and electrostatic filtration. Air dampers controlled exhaust, and a single floor return to maintain pressure in the room

Do you have more info on the waterfall humidifier part? We have an inline steam humidifier hooked up to our hvac but we only get about 2 years out of them before they die. I bought a $250 humidifier from Amazon and it surprisingly does an amazing job in our 2,500 sqft production area, but using tap water full of minerals is leaving white film on EVERYTHING.

 

[DL Signs]

Do you have more info on the waterfall humidifier part? We have an inline steam humidifier hooked up to our hvac but we only get about 2 years out of them before they die. I bought a $250 humidifier from Amazon and it surprisingly does an amazing job in our 2,500 sqft production area, but using tap water full of minerals is leaving white film on EVERYTHING.

I have no clue what brand it was, or where it came from, this was like 20 years ago. Looking around I did find an image of what it looked like inside, it was kinda like this, ours was about 3'wx4'h. Was in the ducting in the HVAC room with an access door, had a water line going to it with canister filters to catch all the minerals before water entered the unit, so it didn't leave that film on everything, or need as much cleaning from mineral buildup. The bottom was a reservoir that self filled like a toilet tank, it had a pump that pumped water to the top and it ran down, there's a flow valve that adjusted the amount based on what was needed, and had drains that ran out the bottom in case it overflowed, and so you could clean it. No filling, and wasn't as troublesome or useless as those cheesy furnace mount units. Really did a good job. Maintenance was just replace water filters and hose it out if it needed it, we usually did that in the fall before winter when it was really needed. When I retired it was still working great, only thing we ever replaced was filters. It had a panel on the wall like a thermostat to adjust the humidity you want. Did we go into overkill mode? Perhaps... But we were climate controlled to the hilt.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I have no clue what brand it was, or where it came from, this was like 20 years ago. Looking around I did find an image of what it looked like inside, it was kinda like this, ours was about 3'wx4'h. Was in the ducting in the HVAC room with an access door, had a water line going to it with canister filters to catch all the minerals before water entered the unit, so it didn't leave that film on everything, or need as much cleaning from mineral buildup. The bottom was a reservoir that self filled like a toilet tank, it had a pump that pumped water to the top and it ran down, there's a flow valve that adjusted the amount based on what was needed, and had drains that ran out the bottom in case it overflowed, and so you could clean it. No filling, and wasn't as troublesome or useless as those cheesy furnace mount units. Really did a good job. Maintenance was just replace water filters and hose it out if it needed it, we usually did that in the fall before winter when it was really needed. When I retired it was still working great, only thing we ever replaced was filters. It had a panel on the wall like a thermostat to adjust the humidity you want. Did we go into overkill mode? Perhaps... But we were climate controlled to the hilt.

It looks like a swamp cooler with better flow control. Cool setup. Did they have a company engineer the print room ventilation system or did you all figure it out through trial and error?

 

[White Haus]

I have no clue what brand it was, or where it came from, this was like 20 years ago. Looking around I did find an image of what it looked like inside, it was kinda like this, ours was about 3'wx4'h. Was in the ducting in the HVAC room with an access door, had a water line going to it with canister filters to catch all the minerals before water entered the unit, so it didn't leave that film on everything, or need as much cleaning from mineral buildup. The bottom was a reservoir that self filled like a toilet tank, it had a pump that pumped water to the top and it ran down, there's a flow valve that adjusted the amount based on what was needed, and had drains that ran out the bottom in case it overflowed, and so you could clean it. No filling, and wasn't as troublesome or useless as those cheesy furnace mount units. Really did a good job. Maintenance was just replace water filters and hose it out if it needed it, we usually did that in the fall before winter when it was really needed. When I retired it was still working great, only thing we ever replaced was filters. It had a panel on the wall like a thermostat to adjust the humidity you want. Did we go into overkill mode? Perhaps... But we were climate controlled to the hilt.

Interesting set up. Sounds like it worked much better than ours, will get a pic when I'm in the shop. Corroded everything to crap and just shorted itself out. This was our 2nd unit and I don't think we'll make the same mistake...thrice.

 

[ColorCrest]

Maybe some historical and engineering perspective…

Notice the breathing configuration of an early solvent printer with the same footprint as current eco-solvent machines found via the following link at Reddit. The first version of the Arizona, especially the second photo of three in the series…

https://www.reddit.com/r/CommercialPrinting/comments/17jvs11

...the machine is self-inclosed with a large, front panel charcoal intake filter and a top-mounted exhaust port channeled to a powerful motor / fan mounted either on a roof or wall to the out of doors. So, enclosed, as are most large machines like Vutek, Durst, etc., are today, still. Although the Vutek and Durst may be used as flatbed, they are yet basically enclosed, unlike some other flatbed designs.

The concept and challenge is to capture and escape the tainted air completely while replacing it with fresh.

I recommend not spending any more time in the print room other than necessary to load, unload, and maintain the machine.

A document for the OP to study can be found here…

https://www.rolanddga.com/support/msds-documents

… and is titled “EUV5-XX and EUV5P-XX Safety Data Sheet” to glean any hazards and research who the various agencies are and to gauge a level of trust for their finding and ratings. GHS, OSHA, IARC, etc.

Good luck to all.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Interesting set up. Sounds like it worked much better than ours, will get a pic when I'm in the shop. Corroded everything to crap and just shorted itself out. This was our 2nd unit and I don't think we'll make the same mistake...thrice.

You should try to run a couple of Pentek big blue filters for your water source, they have a bunch of different cartridge filters for them. Put a charcoal filter as the final one in line to remove any chlorine, assuming you have city water. That may cut down on the corrosion.

 

[DL Signs]

It looks like a swamp cooler with better flow control. Cool setup. Did they have a company engineer the print room ventilation system or did you all figure it out through trial and error?

It was designed by one of our in house engineers based on what we thought it needed to make it as clean and controlled as it could be, and of course went overboard. We built the room that the HVAC equipment went into, and did all the sealing around floors, ceilings, windows, doors, then they outsourced an HVAC contractor to make it happen. Techs who came in were all amazed at how they didn't feel like they were huffing ink in there with so much running. I miss that...

 

[Notarealsignguy]

It was designed by one of our in house engineers based on what we thought it needed to make it as clean and controlled as it could be, and of course went overboard. We built the room that the HVAC equipment went into, and did all the sealing around floors, ceilings, windows, doors, then they outsourced an HVAC contractor to make it happen. Techs who came in were all amazed at how they didn't feel like they were huffing ink in there with so much running. I miss that...

The best part of designing your own setup is going overboard with it. It's a personal challenge and looks like your engineer nailed it. Must have been a pretty smart dude.

 

[josephF]

Hi Joseph, Do you happen to have a a picture of this? I thought about doing this, I have a separate room I can put it in and thought to pipe it out that window, my only concern is temperature? Want that window being open cause temps below 60 degrees in the winter? Maybe not if all the air is going out? Would love to chat with you more about this if you have time for a call

There isn't much to photo. I 3D printed an attachment to go where the BOFA unit is supposed to attach to. I looked up the fan power CFM on the BOFA unit they sell. It was just a small fan that any 4 inch inline fan could pull. So I purchased a nice inline fan because I wanted it to be quiet. I hooked up some ducting to the 3D Printed mount I made to attach to the printer. Then I ran ducting out the window. The window isn't open, you use an air conditioner type thing that has a slot and you close the window on top of it. Then you apply weather stripping/rubber/insulation across the window gap if there is any and that keeps all cool weather out mostly. Of course it isn't as good as having a closed window, but I sit beside the window working everyday and I don't feel a big temp difference and I have a room temp mounted and it isn't any cooler than the rest of my house.

I turn the fan on max when I am printing and I have 0 fume smells. I also have a nice air filter in the room that has a large carbon filter in it running about 5 feet from the printer as well. So the combination of removing anything that escapes and sucking the fumes out when it prints does the job. Before I had the inline filter the fumes would 100% give me a headache. Now I work in the room with the printer going all day long and smell nothing, get 0 headaches, etc. Sometimes I will forget to turn the inline fan on and I quickly get reminded I didn't turn it on.

I had my dealer tech and a Roland tech in my location and both commented on how they smelt nothing and that they were surprised at how well the fumes were being removed for such a cheap solution.

 

[depps74]

There isn't much to photo. I 3D printed an attachment to go where the BOFA unit is supposed to attach to. I looked up the fan power CFM on the BOFA unit they sell. It was just a small fan that any 4 inch inline fan could pull. So I purchased a nice inline fan because I wanted it to be quiet. I hooked up some ducting to the 3D Printed mount I made to attach to the printer. Then I ran ducting out the window. The window isn't open, you use an air conditioner type thing that has a slot and you close the window on top of it. Then you apply weather stripping/rubber/insulation across the window gap if there is any and that keeps all cool weather out mostly. Of course it isn't as good as having a closed window, but I sit beside the window working everyday and I don't feel a big temp difference and I have a room temp mounted and it isn't any cooler than the rest of my house.

I turn the fan on max when I am printing and I have 0 fume smells. I also have a nice air filter in the room that has a large carbon filter in it running about 5 feet from the printer as well. So the combination of removing anything that escapes and sucking the fumes out when it prints does the job. Before I had the inline filter the fumes would 100% give me a headache. Now I work in the room with the printer going all day long and smell nothing, get 0 headaches, etc. Sometimes I will forget to turn the inline fan on and I quickly get reminded I didn't turn it on.

I had my dealer tech and a Roland tech in my location and both commented on how they smelt nothing and that they were surprised at how well the fumes were being removed for such a cheap solution.

amazing! Any chance you could make me up that 3d thing? Or provide the file. Happy to pay for this. I am sooo busy and dont have the tech savvy mind that you do begin to figure it out. Any pics or diagrams?

 

[josephF]

amazing! Any chance you could make me up that 3d thing? Or provide the file. Happy to pay for this. I am sooo busy and dont have the tech savvy mind that you do begin to figure it out. Any pics or diagrams?

What printer do you have? I don't know if the unit attachments are the same. I just measured mine and made it in fusion360.

 

[Ringmaster Images]

There isn't much to photo. I 3D printed an attachment to go where the BOFA unit is supposed to attach to. I looked up the fan power CFM on the BOFA unit they sell. It was just a small fan that any 4 inch inline fan could pull. So I purchased a nice inline fan because I wanted it to be quiet. I hooked up some ducting to the 3D Printed mount I made to attach to the printer. Then I ran ducting out the window. The window isn't open, you use an air conditioner type thing that has a slot and you close the window on top of it. Then you apply weather stripping/rubber/insulation across the window gap if there is any and that keeps all cool weather out mostly. Of course it isn't as good as having a closed window, but I sit beside the window working everyday and I don't feel a big temp difference and I have a room temp mounted and it isn't any cooler than the rest of my house.

I turn the fan on max when I am printing and I have 0 fume smells. I also have a nice air filter in the room that has a large carbon filter in it running about 5 feet from the printer as well. So the combination of removing anything that escapes and sucking the fumes out when it prints does the job. Before I had the inline filter the fumes would 100% give me a headache. Now I work in the room with the printer going all day long and smell nothing, get 0 headaches, etc. Sometimes I will forget to turn the inline fan on and I quickly get reminded I didn't turn it on.

I had my dealer tech and a Roland tech in my location and both commented on how they smelt nothing and that they were surprised at how well the fumes were being removed for such a cheap solution.

Hi Joseph,
This is all new to me also would love to see some pics of your setup if possible to try replicate similar if you're able to?

 

[josephF]

Just a simple mounted inline fan going to a 3dprinted part that attaches under the Roland machine. Then it goes to a traditional window vent for an AC unit that the window closes on. Total cost was like 150 dollars maybe. I will post some pictures in a minute.

 

[josephF]

This is the attachment under my machine. I 3dprinted a rubber gasket to go between the plastic and the metal. Probably overkill here though. Just bolts into the housing made for the BOFA unit that Roland partners with another company to make. If you look up that unit it is pulling air through that 1.8 inch hole, which is maxed out at a certain CFM. So a 4 inch inline will do that no problem at all. Just have to convert from 4inch to the 1.8 inch hole, which is what I designed here. The pipe just goes to an inline fan and then out a window that is closed with one of these:

Window Duct Kit, Adjustable Vent Port for Inline Fans

Your source to create smart growing systems with components including advance grow tents, inline fans, clip-on fans, LED grow lights, and UIS™ controllers.

acinfinity.com

I had to put in the curves because I didn't want to cram everything under the bar with the piping. I don't know how the other Roland machines look under their attachment plates, might not fit the same.

Then I run an air filter with a carbon filter system beside the machine as well. The combination makes sure nothing escapes.

https://www.iqair.com/us/products/replacement-filters/v5-cell-f2 This is the filter the machine uses.

 

[Ringmaster Images]

View attachment 170130

This is the attachment under my machine. I 3dprinted a rubber gasket to go between the plastic and the metal. Probably overkill here though. Just bolts into the housing made for the BOFA unit that Roland partners with another company to make. If you look up that unit it is pulling air through that 1.8 inch hole, which is maxed out at a certain CFM. So a 4 inch inline will do that no problem at all. Just have to convert from 4inch to the 1.8 inch hole, which is what I designed here. The pipe just goes to an inline fan and then out a window that is closed with one of these:

Window Duct Kit, Adjustable Vent Port for Inline Fans

Your source to create smart growing systems with components including advance grow tents, inline fans, clip-on fans, LED grow lights, and UIS™ controllers.

acinfinity.com

I had to put in the curves because I didn't want to cram everything under the bar with the piping. I don't know how the other Roland machines look under their attachment plates, might not fit the same.

Then I run an air filter with a carbon filter system beside the machine as well. The combination makes sure nothing escapes.

https://www.iqair.com/us/products/replacement-filters/v5-cell-f2 This is the filter the machine uses.

Thanks very much for that Joseph.
- What model is your IQAir unit, the Health Pro Plus or GC Multigas I assume?
- Does the inline fan have any filtration or no need for it if duscting straight out the window I assume? And does it sit on the floor or within the ducting?
- Lastly, do you run both setups 24hrs or just when in the room, or just when printing?
Really appreciate your help. Craig

 

[josephF]

I just have the Health Pro Plus. The Multigas wasn't around when I bought the original one. The filter runs 24/7 nonstop in the room. The inline fan runs when it is printing. There is no filtration in the fan. I thought about it but I was worried with the small hose size that it would mess with the pull.

There might be a better filter than the IQAir. It is just the one that I found that had a real carbon filtration unit that was reasonable and lasted 2 years for 99 dollars. Everything else I found was either a joke(no real carbon) or way overpriced.

 

[Ringmaster Images]

I just have the Health Pro Plus. The Multigas wasn't around when I bought the original one. The filter runs 24/7 nonstop in the room. The inline fan runs when it is printing. There is no filtration in the fan. I thought about it but I was worried with the small hose size that it would mess with the pull.

There might be a better filter than the IQAir. It is just the one that I found that had a real carbon filtration unit that was reasonable and lasted 2 years for 99 dollars. Everything else I found was either a joke(no real carbon) or way overpriced.

Fair call regarding the inline fan. The Health Pro Plus is a bit cheaper than the GC Multigas, I emailed an Australian seller of these units to ask a few questions. The units seem well priced compared to many that a crazy expensive as you said ($6-$12k)!