JV3 160 Print Issues

[WrapperX]

the right dampers should arrive today - hopefully I can change them out in a timely fashion. Probably won't know until tomorrow if it worked. Seems the problem only persists in the morning for the first few feet of printing. Sure is getting annoying.
@ Artbot:
The ink pattern seems random and just kind sprays everywhere and anywhere. Almost like there is a over abundance of ink in the head and its just blasting out uncontrollably. Again I don't think its the capping station, we just replaced that not too long ago. But I guess it's worth a check.
If it were a data problem wouldn't it persist in every file and through out the day? This is only in the morning, when the print is first turned out from sleeping overnight and for the first few feet of printing. Once I run my CYAN test, it seems to go away and is much better - not perfect but a heck of a lot better!

 

[artbot]

data problems can be persistent or fade as with the head warming up or cooling down.
possibly static build up on boards might calm down after being used for a while.

did you do the damper swap in order to see if the issue follows the cyan dampers to another head? things that can cause too much ink flow are the printer not being level from left to right. the printer is balanced on a delicate vacuum/gravity system.

if you do an ink fill on the cyan position or several normal cleans, does that change anything? or does only actual printing cause the issue to fade?

if it were my printer, i'd to the damper position swap in the first five minutes. than according to the results move to the above or below the head.

data swaps go as follows. the data cables going to each head must always be traded in pairs maintaining their top and bottom position. the printer has no idea where the actual head rests. so you can "lie" to the printer moving data to a new head. currently i have my third/lmlc head printing water based rapid prototyping fluid assigned for the fourth special color head. so you could move your cyan data to the adjacent head (keep the left ribbon on top. right ribbon on bottom always in pairs from each single head.) to a new slider board position. and vice versa. the colors will print slightly out of horizontal position while doing this so don't be alarmed when the colors seem to be a half inch off. data issues remaining at the head don't always mean the head is bad. it can also mean the ribbon is bad or not plugged in all the way.

basically it's all elimination until it can only be one thing.

 

[WrapperX]

Ok,
So I replaced the dampers on the Cyan head. Put it all back together and now I can't get any ink into the Cyan dampers. I tried the syringe technique directly to the damper and got nothing. Reinstalled the dampers and ran an Ink Fill Up Cycle, got nothing. Removed the rear panel and disconnected the line to the capping station and syringed there. I got ink movement and filled the dampers.

Let it sit over night and ran my morning routine to see how it did. Still the same result, sparatic cyan spray.

So then I decided to attempt the procedure of switching dampers to make sure it was the head and nothing else. So I pulled the Cyan dampers (and noticed they were almost empty) and pulled the Black dampers, tried to move them into position but because the ink tubing was awkward and not allowing me to fit them in - I aborted and replugged Black and Cyan dampers and ran an Ink fill up on 3 and 4 - Cyan and Yellow) then tried again with my cyan print. Basically I was just gonna run my morning routine to get it up and running to the best that it has been. However this time, in addition to Cyan i noticed that the black line in the ribbon was acting funny. So I stopped and ran a test draw and saw that now both CYan and Black are blowing dry.

WTF - this is frustrating!!

 

[artbot]

all that you are dealing with is not terribly foreign to a printer owner. probably at each point a small amount of experience or piece of diagnostic doo-hickey is missing.

couple of questions. when you put the new damper on. you first pulled a vacuum on the line without the damper, right? you'll need a syringe with a rubber pump tube section and a tiny 1/8 lure fitting (can find them at hardware stores or i've heard at auto supply. i think they are used for small vacuum fittings.) when you take off a damper at least half of the ink in the line travels back into the cartridge. put the syringe directly on the line. pull hard about half the length of the syringe and wait for about 15 seconds. you'll finally see the ink traveling. after the line is purged of air. pop off the syringe and then grab the damper quickly, screw it on. the ink will travel back about 6 inches before you have it on securely. the damper itself will stop the ink from going further. then very securely put the raw end of the syringe (you can also later on tear apart a head adapter and plug that into the end of a damper) against the damper and pull a vacuum tilting it slightly upside down. if you are seriously not getting much ink at all. and you can tell that the other lines are pulling much easier. plug and replug the cyan cartridge in a few times to make sure the piercing nipple is set nicely. they can sometimes hit the black seal in the cartridge at an angle and not allow ink flow or restrict it. better yet pull the cartridge and with a flashlight inspect the nipple.

the dampers not being full the next day was nothing more than they fittings on them were probably not tight enough. they have to be very tight or they will allow an tiny air leak. think of them like when you put your finger on the end of a straw and pull fluid. the second you take your finger off the top of the straw the fluid falls out. the black not printing is probably because the black damper was not plugged in securely. and also every time you pull a damper you will lose a lot of color inside the head. that damper is holding a vacuum of ink inside the head as well. so after pulling a damper, you'll need to do a normal clean, ink fill, or pull a short term vacuum at the rear pump line (that's really the best way because you can SEE the ink and not wonder if it worked).

don't get too discouraged. not much can happen to the printer ink train that can't be fixed in about an hour or so. but you'll have to be able to do a damper swap. do your damper have that additional tubing size change right at the last inch of the ink line? you can add a longer tubing to make them reach.

 

[WrapperX]

What size Syringe are you using, mine is a 60 ml and the tip (where a needle goes) is about 1/8". Looking at the ink line to the damper, there is no way that it will fit over my syringe tip. It will stretch it out and then won't fit over the dampers nipple part.

I did check the Print head nipple/connection and it isn't bent or look damaged. So thats fine. I have pulled off and put back on the dampers a couple of times now and I'm still getting nothing.

I did a pull from the rear panel yesterday and it brought ink into the Cyan head just fine, but it didn't fill anymore from there - would it pull ink through the nipple when there's pressure from the syringe but not from the machine pump?

 

[michaelmcmurphy]

We also use Lyson inks.Had the same thing happen with the black. dealt with it until the magenta lost too many nozzles, so we changed the head. it went right away. I thought it was just the head going out, the board or something. Never figured it out.
Another thing, if you think it's film on the head. I know they say never do it, but I LIGHTLY rub a swab (with cleaning fluid) across the nozzles.Then do a couple of cleanings. Never lost a head that way and have actually pulled heads from near death. We average two to three years of life for our heads easy. Have done this for the last six or seven years.

Murphy

 

[WrapperX]

So you changed the head and it went away or the new head went out? Have you had any problems since you changed your head? I have used a swab on the "face" of the head gently and it didn't seem to help.

 

[michaelmcmurphy]

Changing the head fixed the problem. I haven't had any problems with it since.
My guess is it was the board on the head going bad. Like it started to need to warm up or something like that. I'm not really sure but, I have seen heads do weird things when they start getting old.


Murphy

 

[artbot]

here are some pics of the syringes i use. the one with the straight tip is for pulling ink down the lines. the one with the valve (valve optional, use it to release or cut off vacuum) is for after for damper is screwed on. it has a adapter tip set in the end.

if you don't have a spare clogged adapter, you can just push the syringe very firmly up against the interior end of the damper. it's not easy.

the fact that you are having so much trouble with flow... i think you should clean out that line. put a cleaning cartridge in that space (it can be an empty plastic full of mek or acetone, really doesn't matter). push and pull fluid back and forth through that line until it's clear. i once had an ink clog allll the way back at the piercing nipple. it drove my printer crazy with issues until i did the ink line clean out.

as far as the prior switching out the head. a data cable swap will eliminate slider board or board issues before doing the head replacement.

 

[WrapperX]

I found an adapter that fits better into the damper (while attached to the line) so I used that and plugged that in and pulled, the first damper stalled for a sec or two then ink flooded the fill. The 2nd damper didn't work so much. Seemed ink would start to fill but then would return into the line. Is it possible to push the adapter to far into the damper nozzle and damage the seal? How sensitive is that?

 

[artbot]

i've always wondered how much abuse these dampers can take. if you look inside, the damper has a plastic ring that takes the pressure then a black rubber seal beyond that.

you'll notice that when pulling a vacuum on the damper, you will see the clear polyester part cave in. it's heat welded to the hdpe damper so it's not going to come "unglued". if it's not caving in, than you aren't getting a good seal at the syringe. it is not easy to do this. after years of practice holding a damper with one had, pulling a vacuum with the other, keeping a seal, tilting...

if you are just exhausted mastering damper filling. take a new damper and fill it with ink before you even plug it on. it's a bit more messy. but whatever. these printers are messy. when you get the damper screwed on, keep it tilted backwards to keep the pre-injected ink in it. the idea is not necessarily to pull ink into the damper. it's to pull air out of it. ink filling is a byproduct.

 

[DunnSignsVa]

I was having that same problem and I took that same syringe that you have in the picture there and pulled some reducer into it, attached it to the top of the manifold head and drew a suction in and out without forcing any reducer through the manifold and into the head. After about 5 minutes of switching around to different color manifold nipples I noticed that it was freeing the ink up that was blocked, dried, and caught up in side the head. Now I got a nice mist stream flowing and has seemed to really cleared the head up.

goodluck

 

[artbot]

in the next month i'm going to modify my head carriage with a konica/minolta style automatic head cleaning system. it allows for immediate cleaning solution to be run through the heads while keeping the ink in the lines and dampers. when i get it all installed, i post the pics. i don't print very often and i want to be able to custody wash the printer and go back to printing on a day to day basis.